Why do some people need a plan before they move forward, others want to convince you their plan is the right one, and others just want to have fun and see what happens?
Why do some people need clarity before they act, others need agreement before they act, and others need freedom to act?
Those differences aren’t random. They’re patterns.
In Part 2 of our Process Communication Model series, we break down three of the six personality types and the very different ways they move through the world:
• The Thinker, driven by logic and structure
• The Persister, driven by conviction and belief
• The Rebel, driven by fun, reaction, and energy
You’ll start to recognize yourself quickly. And then you’ll start recognizing everyone else.
This episode isn’t about labeling people. It’s about understanding why people do what they do, so you can connect more easily, stop misreading intent, and interact with others in a way that actually works.
If Part 1 was the instruction manual, this is where you start reading your chapter.
This is Part 2 of a 3-part series on the Process Communication Model. If you haven’t listened to Part 1 yet, start there for the foundation (last episode).
Watch or listen now, and make sure you’re subscribed so you don’t miss Part 3, where we cover the remaining personality types.
Shaun Dyke
00:00:00,440 –> 00:02:00,240
Welcome to In The Arena. My name is Shaun Dyke, managing partner of Door 2, a leadership development and consulting firm based here in Long Beach, California. Jumping on this with me today, Chris Stemp. We are continuing a three-part series around the Process Communication Model. So first thing you need to know, if you’re coming in at this episode-
Chris Stemp
00:02:00,240 –> 00:02:00,750
Hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:02:00,750 –> 00:02:06,759
… press pause, and go back to the previous episode, ’cause you’re gonna wanna listen to that one first before we jump into this content.
Chris Stemp
00:02:06,760 –> 00:02:07,320
Yep.
Shaun Dyke
00:02:07,320 –> 00:02:32,400
And as that brief reminder, for those of you that maybe listened to it a couple weeks back, Process Communication Model is a tool that we use as a firm. It is a behavioral lens that helps you understand you and others, how they connect, communicate, and handle stress. In essence, your words… I guess they were my words, and then your words- [laughs] … is, it’s the owner’s manual of you.
Chris Stemp
00:02:32,400 –> 00:02:49,620
Yeah. It’s a good way to understand yourself, understand others, how to connect with them. In the leadership context, how do I influence? But in the relational com- context, whether it’s with your family or your friends or your kids, it’s how do I lead them and myself in the best way that matches up who they are and who I am?
Shaun Dyke
00:02:49,620 –> 00:02:58,119
Yeah, perfect. So as we started this conversation, uh, I think your head space, which I think was a smart one, was, “We gotta be good stewards of this, and maybe we need to give some ground rules.”
Chris Stemp
00:02:58,120 –> 00:03:15,700
One that we say often is, when we are talking about typing, personality types, we often will just talk to that caricature. We will say, “You are this personality type.” And the phrase we use is, “It’s types in people, not types of people.”
Shaun Dyke
00:03:15,700 –> 00:03:15,900
Yes.
Chris Stemp
00:03:15,900 –> 00:03:55,240
And the reason for that is there are six personality types and, you know, shocker, we have all of them. I have all six; you have all six. They show up in varying degrees. They show up in varying ways, but we do have them within us. The best analogy, I’m not gonna give you credit, ’cause I do it too often- [laughs] … is, you know, there’s six, uh, six, uh, colors of paint, and if I were to give everybody the same six colors and send them off to Home Depot and say, “You get to mix one gallon of paint with these six colors,” we would all have different colors, even though we started with the same six.
Shaun Dyke
00:03:55,240 –> 00:04:00,020
The color will change based on the concentration of certain colors inside of there.
Chris Stemp
00:04:00,020 –> 00:04:00,200
There you go.
Shaun Dyke
00:04:00,200 –> 00:04:10,290
So I think it’s one of the unique things that differentiates this model to a degree. Because if you’re familiar with other personality type indicators… And, and by the way, many of them are great, but they do tend to sort of qualify you as, like, a thing.
Chris Stemp
00:04:10,290 –> 00:04:10,760
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:04:10,760 –> 00:04:44,660
Uh, whereas we talk about, like, you have this wide range. Okay, so, uh, I think our intention is to just kinda dive right in. We’re gonna hit three of them today as we talk through this. That’s the goal. First personality type that we really wanna talk through, this is the individual that their greatest sort of big character strengths, or better said, the way they like to interact and perceive the world, is through that doorway of logic. Every one of the personality types has a name. The name for this one is called Thinker, which makes sense. It is a logic-oriented individual. Any adds into that?
Chris Stemp
00:04:44,660 –> 00:04:48,500
Well, the one I think of is go back to perception and the lens that covers.
Shaun Dyke
00:04:48,500 –> 00:04:48,800
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:04:48,800 –> 00:05:06,440
Imagine if your primary lens, the way you perceive the majority of your experiences, is through this belief that, uh, through logic and data and facts and aggregation, there is a correct, factual, logical way to do things.
Shaun Dyke
00:05:06,440 –> 00:05:06,760
Yeah, nice.
Chris Stemp
00:05:06,760 –> 00:05:15,500
Imagine that that is the thing kind of driving you. Now, we can already get a sense of how will that person show up, what will their personality look like?
Shaun Dyke
00:05:15,500 –> 00:05:32,780
Yeah. So here’s the great example with this. Uh, my wife has a lot of this in her. And, uh, near where we live, like many cities, there is this, uh, intersection called Five Points. It is where five roads come together. Um, you’ll laugh at, because you’ve heard me tell part of this story before, but it happened again like a week ago.
Chris Stemp
00:05:32,780 –> 00:05:33,480
[chuckles]
Shaun Dyke
00:05:33,480 –> 00:06:29,808
So we pull up to this intersection, and my wife calmly says, “I hate that they changed the light sequence.” And I said, “What do you mean?” And she said, “The, the sequencing of lights from each one of the interconnecting roadways.” And I said, “I’m sorry, you know the light sequence- [laughs] … that’s happening at this particular intersection?” And she was like, “O- of course. You don’t?” And she went on to explain to me, like-… you know, the, the, the one that’s adjacent to us goes first, and then the one to our right goes next, and then you’ll see right now the one on the left is going, so this one is gonna follow. But they changed it, and she walks me through the sequencing that they changed it to. And then I sit there, and I watch the exact corresponding sequence that she just walked me through happen. Now, when we talk about a story like that, for those in the room or listening that have strong Thinker personality parts in them-
Chris Stemp
00:06:29,808 –> 00:06:30,058
Mm-hmm
Shaun Dyke
00:06:30,058 –> 00:06:38,348
… there’s a strength or a concentration of that paint color, as we use that analogy. They tend to go, “But that makes total sense. You, you don’t pay attention to those things-
Chris Stemp
00:06:38,348 –> 00:06:38,358
Exactly
Shaun Dyke
00:06:38,358 –> 00:06:39,308
… and you don’t know?”
Chris Stemp
00:06:39,308 –> 00:06:39,658
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:06:39,658 –> 00:06:46,128
Those that don’t have strong components inside of that tend to think, “Who the hell pays attention to light sequences?”
Chris Stemp
00:06:46,128 –> 00:06:55,488
Exactly. You know, the one I use a lot in sessions is, uh, when you go to buy something, do you pull up seven different Amazon tabs?
Shaun Dyke
00:06:55,488 –> 00:06:55,828
[laughs]
Chris Stemp
00:06:55,828 –> 00:07:27,288
Look at the same product but different buyers, then research it, read the comments, look at the ratings, but know that you probably shouldn’t look at five-star ratings because those ones are probably bought f- you know, paid for? So you go to the three and four-star ratings, and then you look at cost on a per-unit basis to see if you’re getting the best deal. And ultimately, the reason is, and I, I see that, um, Thinkers often get this, is it feels like you actually get it wrong if you buy a product-
Shaun Dyke
00:07:27,288 –> 00:07:27,298
Yeah
Chris Stemp
00:07:27,298 –> 00:07:36,088
… and then later either find it for cheaper or it doesn’t work. Because this personality type is like, “I should have gotten that correct.”
Shaun Dyke
00:07:36,088 –> 00:07:36,298
Yes.
Chris Stemp
00:07:36,298 –> 00:07:37,998
“There’s a right answer, and I didn’t get it.”
Shaun Dyke
00:07:37,998 –> 00:07:38,028
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:07:38,028 –> 00:07:50,868
How… So this, um, belief and willingness to research and do the due diligence, because they know if they work hard enough at it, there will be a right answer and a reward that comes from that.
Shaun Dyke
00:07:50,868 –> 00:07:52,728
There’s a right answer, and I didn’t get it.
Chris Stemp
00:07:52,728 –> 00:07:52,948
Yes.
Shaun Dyke
00:07:52,948 –> 00:07:58,628
It’s incredibly important for the Thinker to feel and experience and know that they were right-
Chris Stemp
00:07:58,628 –> 00:07:59,008
Mm-hmm
Shaun Dyke
00:07:59,008 –> 00:08:28,828
… in their thought processes and the outcomes. So for this personality type, character strengths, logical, responsible, organized. They look through the world, at the world, and through systems and processes very structured, very linearly, very logically, very methodically, very data-driven in their approach. So that logical nature about how they get from point A to point B is what’s going to drive their approach to interaction, to problem-solving, and to connection.
Chris Stemp
00:08:28,828 –> 00:08:29,408
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:08:29,408 –> 00:08:57,168
They’re also going to have that amplified sense of responsibility. They are going to work before play. They’re going to get the job done before they play. It’s irresponsible not to, and they’re not gonna feel okay doing that. So they’re much more oriented in making sure that the tasks that need to get completed, regardless of that quantity of work that needs to get completed, that they’re gonna do it. They are incredible workhorses.
Chris Stemp
00:08:57,168 –> 00:08:57,448
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:08:57,448 –> 00:08:59,448
Um, here’s a really important piece.
Chris Stemp
00:08:59,448 –> 00:08:59,768
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:08:59,768 –> 00:09:05,168
There’s no correlation to IQ in any of these. So just because we call someone a Thinker, it doesn’t mean they have a higher IQ.
Chris Stemp
00:09:05,168 –> 00:09:05,668
Fair.
Shaun Dyke
00:09:05,668 –> 00:09:36,508
What it means is it is very important for them to feel competent, so they do the work. They tend to have that orientation [chuckles] around logical, responsible, and organized, but organized doesn’t always mean the way in which we think about it. It can be organized for them, so filing systems or ways they place things. They might have a, a digital desktop that has the thousand icons on it, but for them, it makes sense, and it’s organized. And so those attributes, when on display, translate into people in the workforce-
Chris Stemp
00:09:36,508 –> 00:09:36,988
Mm-hmm
Shaun Dyke
00:09:36,988 –> 00:09:39,018
… um, man, they’re hard workers.
Chris Stemp
00:09:39,018 –> 00:09:39,148
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:09:39,148 –> 00:09:43,968
They put effort in. They, they define their self-worth
Shaun Dyke
00:09:43,968 –> 00:09:47,748
so often based on, “Am I a good steward of those things?”
Chris Stemp
00:09:47,748 –> 00:09:48,138
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:09:48,138 –> 00:09:58,528
“Do I show up responsibly? Do I show up competently? Do I show up effectively in the things that I’m doing? And if I’m doing those well, those translate into strong feelings of self-worth for me.”
Chris Stemp
00:09:58,528 –> 00:09:58,998
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:09:58,998 –> 00:10:11,308
“So I’m going to actively lean in. I’m gonna show up early to work. I’m gonna work hard when I am there. I’m gonna just spend time in the evenings and afternoons working.” So they oftentimes make incredibly good students and professionals-
Chris Stemp
00:10:11,308 –> 00:10:11,437
Yeah
Shaun Dyke
00:10:11,437 –> 00:10:13,728
… because they work really hard at it.
Chris Stemp
00:10:13,728 –> 00:10:40,988
Yep, and there’s a shadow side to that. Um, you can imagine that if you’re driven by this need for competence, you are going to put that above all else at a, at certain times. And especially in a work environment, when you are often seemingly rewarded for that hard work, you might not stop. In fact, true or false, this previously, long time ago, was… This personality type was titled Workaholic.
Shaun Dyke
00:10:40,988 –> 00:10:43,367
Yeah, 100% correct. That was the previous title.
Chris Stemp
00:10:43,367 –> 00:10:43,418
And I-
Shaun Dyke
00:10:43,418 –> 00:10:45,688
It obviously wasn’t deemed positive, so it got changed.
Chris Stemp
00:10:45,688 –> 00:10:50,117
Exactly, but I do see people who go, “Okay, that, I get that. I get that piece.”
Shaun Dyke
00:10:50,117 –> 00:10:50,908
“That’s who I am.”
Chris Stemp
00:10:50,908 –> 00:10:54,887
So what are some of the other kind of shadow side things you see show up in this personality type?
Shaun Dyke
00:10:54,887 –> 00:11:12,808
So, um, definitely can over-index on excessive hardworking. Now, if I recognize that I have this strong need to be perceived as intelligent and as competent, what that can translate into is if things are not going in the direction that I want them to go or feel them to go, I can dial up my control needs.
Chris Stemp
00:11:12,808 –> 00:11:13,328
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:11:13,328 –> 00:11:24,328
So I have a greater need to control the situation or the circumstance, because the outcome is a reflection of my self-worth. Then I may have a hard time
Shaun Dyke
00:11:24,387 –> 00:11:26,848
allowing myself to relinquish control.
Chris Stemp
00:11:26,848 –> 00:11:32,428
Yeah. I mean, one time you said to me, “If you really wanna mess with a Thinker, go into their office and move some things around.”
Shaun Dyke
00:11:32,428 –> 00:11:32,867
Yeah, entirely.
Chris Stemp
00:11:32,867 –> 00:11:33,208
Because they-
Shaun Dyke
00:11:33,208 –> 00:11:33,728
They will know
Chris Stemp
00:11:33,728 –> 00:11:59,728
… th- the lack of control of where things should be or where are they or why don’t I know this is here? And that seems like kind of a humorous example, but in truth, one of the things that is most distressing for the Thinker is that loss of control, loss in general, a feeling that I am unable to stabilize my environment through logic, compartmentali- compartmentalization, and data.
Shaun Dyke
00:11:59,728 –> 00:12:01,048
Yes, smarting my way through it.
Chris Stemp
00:12:01,048 –> 00:12:02,288
Yeah, exactly.
Shaun Dyke
00:12:02,288 –> 00:12:15,851
Two other issues that tend to show up for them?… uh, if you’re listening, you’re gonna shake your head and be like, “Ah, shoot, yeah, that is me.” Cleanliness and money. So they tend to want order in their homes. They tend to want things to be cleaned up in a specific way.
Chris Stemp
00:12:15,852 –> 00:12:16,132
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:12:16,132 –> 00:12:16,792
Not always.
Chris Stemp
00:12:16,792 –> 00:12:17,271
Mm.
Shaun Dyke
00:12:17,271 –> 00:12:19,302
Go into any office-
Chris Stemp
00:12:19,302 –> 00:12:19,302
Mm
Shaun Dyke
00:12:19,302 –> 00:12:33,281
… that is just clean, crisp, nothing on it, no walls, that is, no art on the walls, it’s highly probable we have some strong Thinker parts at play in there because we feel like we want order in it. Money, it’s tied into responsibility.
Chris Stemp
00:12:33,281 –> 00:12:33,292
Mm.
Shaun Dyke
00:12:33,292 –> 00:12:54,052
It’s tied into money as a proxy for intellect. I’ve earned, I’ve demonstrated capability, and money has come in for me in a way that demonstrates I am worthy of that. So Thinker personality types can tend to have control issues, and they can struggle around cleanliness. They can struggle around, um, money matters as well.
Chris Stemp
00:12:54,052 –> 00:13:13,731
So now I wanna talk about what drives this, because we talked about that in our last episode a little bit, right? Uh, understanding the personality type isn’t even as much the goal as when you see this constellation of traits, you can then say, “This person is exhibiting Thinker behavior,” which means blank.
Shaun Dyke
00:13:13,732 –> 00:13:13,912
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:13:13,912 –> 00:13:27,852
Right? So there’s this thing called an existential question. So tell us, what is this existential question? Like, at its core, what does it mean, and then what is it for the Thinker? Because we’ll talk about it for each personality type.
Shaun Dyke
00:13:27,852 –> 00:14:28,641
Yeah, so existential question in its simplest form is a persistent, sometimes unrelenting, um, script or narrative that we have unconsciously running. For the Thinker, it is, “Am I competent?” There is a constant presence of an uncertainty of if they are competent. In the last episode, I had said to you, using this analogy with this person, that when that personality type, when the Thinker feels competent, they feel on their game, they feel like the work that they’re doing is productive and of high value, they feel like they’re smart and showing up well, then they’re feeling good. They’re in a good space. But if something happens where they’re feeling like, “Ah, shoot, I should’ve known that. I missed that. I didn’t know that. I wasn’t prepared for that. I didn’t think that through as effectively as I could have. I didn’t have the right answer in that,” that starts knocking at that echo of, “Am I competent?” And the real drag is we have a self-coach at times, and we have a self-critic at times.
Chris Stemp
00:14:28,641 –> 00:14:29,252
Right, yep.
Shaun Dyke
00:14:29,252 –> 00:14:36,352
And frequently, that self-critic is that one that is in there that’s reminding us… I mean, the narration is terrible, right?
Chris Stemp
00:14:36,352 –> 00:14:36,461
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:14:36,461 –> 00:14:38,072
We talk terribly to ourselves.
Chris Stemp
00:14:38,072 –> 00:14:38,531
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:14:38,531 –> 00:15:01,652
So the Thinker in those spots will go through the, “Sean, that was stupid. How could you have missed that? That was dumb. Come on, get your act together.” And it’s just this unconscious script that is running in the back of our mind at all times. Thinker personality type behavior is always goal-oriented toward feeling competent.
Chris Stemp
00:15:01,652 –> 00:15:18,752
So when we say existential question, and the way I word it in workshops is, constantly running is, “Are you competent? Are you competent now? Are you still competent? Oh, good. Oh, wait, now you’re not?” And you can watch moment-by-moment behavior change based on what your answer to that question is.
Shaun Dyke
00:15:18,752 –> 00:15:19,241
Absolutely.
Chris Stemp
00:15:19,241 –> 00:15:23,672
It is the driver of either character strength or distress sequence.
Shaun Dyke
00:15:23,672 –> 00:15:27,492
Yes. Well, and it’s funny that you called that, because in the model, it’s literally called driver.
Chris Stemp
00:15:27,492 –> 00:15:27,812
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:15:27,812 –> 00:15:28,132
Right.
Chris Stemp
00:15:28,132 –> 00:15:28,332
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:15:28,332 –> 00:15:29,992
It is what
Shaun Dyke
00:15:29,992 –> 00:15:46,192
drives your behavior. Why does this matter? If you’re listening, pause and think, “Am I aware that I have a tendency to question my own competency, and in return, translate that into behavior?”
Chris Stemp
00:15:46,192 –> 00:15:46,592
Mm.
Shaun Dyke
00:15:46,592 –> 00:15:58,531
How hard I work, how much effort I put into it, how much fun I choose not to have, how much I underemphasize relationships, my tendency to over-index on the right answer.
Chris Stemp
00:15:58,531 –> 00:16:02,831
Another nugget you alluded to is the until script.
Shaun Dyke
00:16:02,832 –> 00:16:06,031
The pattern is like, “I can’t have fun until I’ve completed the task.”
Chris Stemp
00:16:06,031 –> 00:16:06,322
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:16:06,322 –> 00:16:08,972
“I can’t watch the movie until I’ve sent the email.”
Chris Stemp
00:16:08,972 –> 00:16:09,262
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:16:09,262 –> 00:16:18,291
“I can’t go play with my kids. I can’t go to the gym. I can’t enjoy the experience I wanna have until…”
Chris Stemp
00:16:18,291 –> 00:16:18,732
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:16:18,732 –> 00:16:20,871
And then you die. Because-
Chris Stemp
00:16:20,871 –> 00:16:22,060
Just got a little bit of Tom there [laughing]
Shaun Dyke
00:16:22,060 –> 00:16:23,702
… yeah, that’s exactly right.
Chris Stemp
00:16:23,702 –> 00:16:23,702
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:16:23,702 –> 00:16:43,791
B- that’s that point on that script unconsciously is running all the time. This is why we said this model helps you recognize the underlying patterns, the inherited scripts, the unconscious beliefs that we have that are driving us.
Chris Stemp
00:16:43,791 –> 00:16:44,031
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:16:44,031 –> 00:16:54,152
If I know that, I can create some awareness to it, I can start recognizing that showing up, and I can make an informed choice. It doesn’t mean I may not choose that still-
Chris Stemp
00:16:54,152 –> 00:16:54,372
Right
Shaun Dyke
00:16:54,372 –> 00:17:01,051
… but at least I’m in a spot where I’m at the helm. It’s not a ghost driving the vehicle. There’s no boogeyman.
Chris Stemp
00:17:01,051 –> 00:17:01,232
Yep.
Shaun Dyke
00:17:01,232 –> 00:17:04,570
It’s me choosing in this spot.
Chris Stemp
00:17:04,572 –> 00:17:22,512
Last thing on this personality type, let’s say I, I, I get a little bit of what you said. I feel like, “Oh, okay, I have some strong Thinker tendencies.” What can I do, just sim- simple basis, to put myself in a better position, to be more resilient?
Shaun Dyke
00:17:22,512 –> 00:17:22,732
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:17:22,732 –> 00:17:26,912
As we discussed in the last episode, it is called psychological needs.
Shaun Dyke
00:17:26,912 –> 00:17:27,232
Yep.
Chris Stemp
00:17:27,232 –> 00:17:31,692
What are the psychological needs, the fuel, the bucket fillers, for this personality type?
Shaun Dyke
00:17:31,692 –> 00:18:02,851
Yeah. There are two. Uh, first one is called recognition of productive work, and the second one is time management. So it is basically, do I experience on a daily basis that I utilized my time well, that I had productive time in the directions that I needed it to go? So part one is trying to ensure that you are able to frequently, in an ideal world, daily, if not more frequently throughout the day-
Chris Stemp
00:18:02,851 –> 00:18:02,862
Mm
Shaun Dyke
00:18:02,862 –> 00:18:06,632
… recognize that the things that you are doing are productive-
Chris Stemp
00:18:06,803 –> 00:18:23,043
… intelligent, thoughtful, value added in ways that make sense and are meaningful to you. Keeping those to-do lists, recognizing the work that was done, putting yourself in positions and places where you will enjoy the work, and be recognized for it.
Shaun Dyke
00:18:23,043 –> 00:18:32,543
So that is a way of getting it met, and you know this already. Um, we, uh, as we always say, you and only you are responsible for getting your needs met.
Chris Stemp
00:18:32,543 –> 00:18:33,183
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:18:33,184 –> 00:18:49,664
We outsource that responsibility constantly. So we expect our employers, our spouses, our kids, and our friends to fill that need for us all the time. It’s an expectation that we have externally created without their permission, and then we get frustrated when people don’t do that for us-
Chris Stemp
00:18:49,664 –> 00:18:49,673
Mm-hmm
Shaun Dyke
00:18:49,673 –> 00:19:00,843
… which is just a fool’s errand, but we do it all the time. So what we say is, it is your job to get those needs met, to figure out how you can take inventory on a daily basis of the competency on display.
Chris Stemp
00:19:00,843 –> 00:19:01,364
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:19:01,364 –> 00:19:04,264
The second one in that space is really time management-
Chris Stemp
00:19:04,264 –> 00:19:04,374
Yeah
Shaun Dyke
00:19:04,374 –> 00:19:08,164
… effective use of time. Thinkers live their life by their calendar and their to-do list-
Chris Stemp
00:19:08,164 –> 00:19:08,343
Schedules, yeah
Shaun Dyke
00:19:08,343 –> 00:19:15,664
… entirely. So we said earlier, that can make them incredibly productive students and professionals.
Chris Stemp
00:19:15,664 –> 00:19:16,573
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:19:16,573 –> 00:19:30,323
The challenge you have to watch out for is, as you go about your day, getting all of those things met, monitoring your calendar, monitoring the clock, uh, making sure that you tend to remember that you exist in a world with people-
Chris Stemp
00:19:30,323 –> 00:19:30,524
Right
Shaun Dyke
00:19:30,524 –> 00:19:32,264
… and trying to ensure that that exists.
Chris Stemp
00:19:32,264 –> 00:19:36,384
Because you, the Thinkers, they can get lost in that doing, right?
Shaun Dyke
00:19:36,384 –> 00:19:36,744
Entirely.
Chris Stemp
00:19:36,744 –> 00:19:38,444
Instead of the being.
Shaun Dyke
00:19:38,444 –> 00:19:45,764
Yeah. Yeah, nicely said. All right, so I mean, uh, the reality is we could talk about these for an hour, but that is
Shaun Dyke
00:19:45,764 –> 00:19:48,404
a highlight reel of the Thinker personality type.
Chris Stemp
00:19:48,404 –> 00:19:53,134
Yeah, and I think for the next five, as we do them, we won’t have to explain as much about-
Shaun Dyke
00:19:53,134 –> 00:19:53,134
Yep
Chris Stemp
00:19:53,134 –> 00:20:01,944
… psych needs, and this, that, and the other, but we do want to help you understand, again, as you said, “Who am I most likely?” or, “What parts do I have? And what about the people I care most about?”
Shaun Dyke
00:20:01,944 –> 00:20:03,083
Yeah, perfect.
Chris Stemp
00:20:03,083 –> 00:20:08,624
So the next one we’re gonna cover is the one who we talked about… Actually, uh, you exhibit a lot of these.
Shaun Dyke
00:20:08,624 –> 00:20:08,934
I do.
Chris Stemp
00:20:08,934 –> 00:20:08,944
Um-
Shaun Dyke
00:20:08,944 –> 00:20:09,774
I didn’t use to.
Chris Stemp
00:20:09,774 –> 00:20:10,734
Uh, yeah, that’s-
Shaun Dyke
00:20:10,734 –> 00:20:10,734
Yeah
Chris Stemp
00:20:10,734 –> 00:20:17,703
… another conversation, but primary perception is through, uh, conviction, beliefs, and opinions.
Shaun Dyke
00:20:17,703 –> 00:20:18,224
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:20:18,224 –> 00:20:32,823
Uh, the name of this one, as you know, is called the Persister, and the, the way I think about this when we talk about is, um, it is those people who have a strong vantage point or viewpoint on the way the world or the way things should be.
Shaun Dyke
00:20:32,823 –> 00:20:36,024
And this can be as granular as the way the coffee cups are stacked-
Chris Stemp
00:20:36,024 –> 00:20:36,033
Mm-hmm
Shaun Dyke
00:20:36,033 –> 00:20:38,023
… the way the dishwasher is loaded.
Chris Stemp
00:20:38,024 –> 00:20:39,853
Mm. That’s a big one. [laughs]
Shaun Dyke
00:20:39,853 –> 00:20:40,134
Some… Yeah. [laughs]
Chris Stemp
00:20:40,134 –> 00:20:40,283
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:20:40,283 –> 00:20:43,204
Yeah, there’s gonna be an echo. Many people are like, “Oh, that’s what it is!”
Chris Stemp
00:20:43,204 –> 00:20:51,384
I’m actually glad you brought that up, though, because right now there are probably some people who went, “Oh, I care about how the dishwasher is loaded,”
Chris Stemp
00:20:51,384 –> 00:21:06,043
but it doesn’t make you a Persister, because it’s why do you care? What is driving that? So we will often say that the Thinker wants to do the thing right. The Persister wants to do the right thing.
Shaun Dyke
00:21:06,043 –> 00:21:42,264
Anytime we’re teaching this workshop, uh, early on, people will misidentify these two, ’cause the Thinker and the Persister personality will sort of… They will, on the surface level, they can look the same in the way they sort of behaviorally approach the world. They can be more factual. They can be more measured. Um, they can be more intentional and managed in their emotional, uh, volatility. Um, so they kind of show up in that same way, but you said it perfectly, so I’m just gonna echo it again. Thinker wants to do things right, competently, effectively, accurately. Loading the dishwasher comes from a place of, “It’s the most efficient way to get the dishes cleaned. That’s why.”
Chris Stemp
00:21:42,264 –> 00:21:42,974
[laughs]
Shaun Dyke
00:21:42,974 –> 00:21:58,082
The Persister wants to do the right thing, so it is looking at the behaviors and the things that we’re doing that are in service of their opinion around what the right thing is. This gets tricky. Watch any political debate-
Chris Stemp
00:21:58,083 –> 00:21:58,594
Mm.
Shaun Dyke
00:21:58,594 –> 00:22:07,124
… and most of the issues that occur, in truth, so many of the issues that occur in the world today, we could spend a long time just on this, are a function of there is no fact.
Chris Stemp
00:22:07,124 –> 00:22:07,563
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:22:07,563 –> 00:22:09,204
There’s no right answer.
Chris Stemp
00:22:09,204 –> 00:22:10,644
There’s no objective correctness.
Shaun Dyke
00:22:10,644 –> 00:22:10,844
Cor-
Chris Stemp
00:22:10,844 –> 00:22:11,004
Yeah
Shaun Dyke
00:22:11,004 –> 00:22:18,204
… but for Persisters, there is a right answer according to their belief system and their values.
Chris Stemp
00:22:18,204 –> 00:22:18,524
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:22:18,524 –> 00:22:29,143
The morality that they have, the value system that they have developed through their upbringing and people in their life that were heroes, those… That is the way one should operate.
Chris Stemp
00:22:29,144 –> 00:22:29,543
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:22:29,543 –> 00:22:39,464
So it may not be about, “I’m gonna change voting rights.” It may just be, “In my family system, the pillow goes on the couch a very specific way.”
Chris Stemp
00:22:39,464 –> 00:22:39,914
Right, right.
Shaun Dyke
00:22:39,914 –> 00:22:43,724
“That’s the proper way, to put it that way. The zipper gets pointed down, not up.”
Chris Stemp
00:22:43,724 –> 00:22:43,853
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:22:43,853 –> 00:22:49,864
“Put it down.” What is the challenge with that? The Persister tends to have an opinion on everything.
Chris Stemp
00:22:49,864 –> 00:22:50,464
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:22:50,464 –> 00:22:53,324
So there is a proper way to do everything.
Chris Stemp
00:22:53,324 –> 00:22:53,894
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:22:53,894 –> 00:23:05,623
The strengths inside of that, though, Persisters’ conviction and adherence to those value systems, we always say, makes it so that they will stand within a strong wind.
Chris Stemp
00:23:05,623 –> 00:23:06,004
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:23:06,004 –> 00:23:16,644
You know what they stand for. You know what they believe in, and you know that they will act in accordance with the values that they espouse. There is incredible power in that.
Chris Stemp
00:23:16,644 –> 00:23:23,864
Yeah, it, it reminds me of a quote, and I don’t know if this is exactly it, but it’s, “If you don’t stand for something, you stand for nothing,” and-
Shaun Dyke
00:23:23,864 –> 00:23:24,563
Or anything.
Chris Stemp
00:23:24,563 –> 00:23:29,123
Yeah, and, and the, the Persister is that one. At least you know where they stand.
Shaun Dyke
00:23:29,123 –> 00:23:29,283
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:23:29,283 –> 00:23:32,964
You know, oftentimes these are the people you’re going to deem most trustworthy.
Shaun Dyke
00:23:32,964 –> 00:23:33,103
Yes.
Chris Stemp
00:23:33,103 –> 00:23:34,344
They are conscientious.
Shaun Dyke
00:23:34,344 –> 00:23:34,454
Yes.
Chris Stemp
00:23:34,454 –> 00:23:50,563
They will do the right thing, even if it, at times, makes it more difficult on themselves or others because it is the right thing. They often don’t see the, uh, “Oh, there’s, there’s an option. I could either do it that way or this way.” It’s, “This is the right way. This is what we’re gonna do.”
Shaun Dyke
00:23:50,563 –> 00:23:55,464
100%. This is… We always say that this is a, um, behavior
Shaun Dyke
00:23:55,464 –> 00:23:59,524
out of alignment with their value set, is a visceral violation. [chuckles]
Chris Stemp
00:23:59,524 –> 00:23:59,824
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:23:59,824 –> 00:24:00,994
They feel it.
Chris Stemp
00:24:00,994 –> 00:24:01,004
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:24:01,004 –> 00:24:05,224
It is not okay to do that, and
Shaun Dyke
00:24:05,224 –> 00:24:10,543
the Thinker will tend to orient that s- that correction on self.
Chris Stemp
00:24:10,543 –> 00:24:11,184
Mm.
Shaun Dyke
00:24:11,184 –> 00:24:17,836
“I screwed up. I did it wrong. I need to figure it out.”… the persister will orient their correction on others-
Chris Stemp
00:24:17,836 –> 00:24:18,136
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:24:18,136 –> 00:24:18,814
Often.
Chris Stemp
00:24:18,816 –> 00:24:19,156
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:24:19,156 –> 00:24:37,726
Because that persister deeply wants their value sets and their conviction to matter and to have influence. So if my conviction, and my opinions, and my values are put on display, and you don’t trust them, you don’t believe in them, then who am I?
Chris Stemp
00:24:37,726 –> 00:24:37,735
Don’t trust me.
Shaun Dyke
00:24:37,735 –> 00:24:40,316
And I can start to lose sense… You don’t trust me.
Chris Stemp
00:24:40,316 –> 00:24:41,156
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:24:41,156 –> 00:25:05,456
Now, um, where this one gets a little tricky, thinkers almost always look like thinkers. When they walk into a room, thinkers tend to have a logic orientation, a structure about them, a responsibility to them, a calendar, a planning mechanism, a methodology, time management. They tend to demonstrate that pretty consistently, regardless of any other
Shaun Dyke
00:25:05,456 –> 00:25:10,755
indicator of the human, whether they are- whatever their ethnicity is, whatever their gender is, or whatever their age is.
Chris Stemp
00:25:10,755 –> 00:25:11,176
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:25:11,176 –> 00:25:19,556
Um, those tend to show up, those constellation of traits tend to show up pretty consistently in that manner. Persister gets a little trickier, ’cause it’s based on the value set.
Chris Stemp
00:25:19,556 –> 00:25:20,116
Mm.
Shaun Dyke
00:25:20,116 –> 00:25:36,136
So if you have someone come into a room that, say, has deep Judeo-Christian values, and they have a belie- deep belief in that space, then you’re gonna experience that. The exact opposite could be true. So if you have somebody that has completely anti-religious belief- views, or political party lines-
Chris Stemp
00:25:36,136 –> 00:25:36,176
Right
Shaun Dyke
00:25:36,176 –> 00:25:46,656
… or whatever those are, that value set is going to inform how they show up, and then adherence into that value set will, at times, serve them-
Chris Stemp
00:25:46,656 –> 00:25:46,976
Mm-hmm
Shaun Dyke
00:25:46,976 –> 00:25:55,036
… really, really well, and at times, the shadow shows up, and it looks close-minded, it looks preaching-
Chris Stemp
00:25:55,036 –> 00:25:55,056
Mm.
Shaun Dyke
00:25:55,056 –> 00:25:57,696
It looks unwilling to hear an alternate viewpoint.
Chris Stemp
00:25:57,696 –> 00:26:00,015
Yeah, I mean, I think of it as a, a moral compass.
Shaun Dyke
00:26:00,015 –> 00:26:00,086
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:26:00,086 –> 00:26:05,235
But that compass can y- m- mine can point in one direction, yours can point in a different-
Shaun Dyke
00:26:05,235 –> 00:26:05,295
Yes.
Chris Stemp
00:26:05,295 –> 00:26:06,815
But we both have a strong one.
Shaun Dyke
00:26:06,816 –> 00:26:07,015
Yes.
Chris Stemp
00:26:07,015 –> 00:26:17,816
This is where a lot of that disagreement can come from. We often say, which personality types are the ones that can, you know, bump into each other the most? And it’s persister and persister-
Shaun Dyke
00:26:17,816 –> 00:26:18,166
Yep
Chris Stemp
00:26:18,166 –> 00:26:20,786
… with op- opposing value systems-
Shaun Dyke
00:26:20,786 –> 00:26:20,786
Yep
Chris Stemp
00:26:20,786 –> 00:26:21,976
… or a value set.
Shaun Dyke
00:26:21,976 –> 00:26:31,586
The vast majority of change that has happened in this world, these have come from the persister in us saying, “That’s not okay.”
Chris Stemp
00:26:31,586 –> 00:26:31,586
Mm.
Shaun Dyke
00:26:31,586 –> 00:26:45,376
“That’s not right. That shouldn’t be like that, so I’m going to dedicate my life’s work, or significant amount of my focus, into evolving that into something that is in service of what I believe to be right and true.”
Chris Stemp
00:26:45,376 –> 00:26:46,196
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:26:46,196 –> 00:26:53,066
So let’s talk about the idea that in the thinker, we said one of the things that sort of knocks around in their head is that existential question, is that idea of, “Am I competent?”
Chris Stemp
00:26:53,066 –> 00:26:53,096
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:26:53,096 –> 00:26:54,795
You want to talk about it for the persister?
Chris Stemp
00:26:54,795 –> 00:27:17,096
The existential question for the persister is, “Am I valued? Am I trusted?” And so what they want is for you, for the world to recognize that they have put in the thought. They have, they have stirred it around. They have really, um, determined what do they stand for, and they will go to bat for it.
Shaun Dyke
00:27:17,096 –> 00:27:17,536
Yes.
Chris Stemp
00:27:17,536 –> 00:27:24,556
And so by, uh, bringing that perspective to the table, their opinion is valued-
Shaun Dyke
00:27:24,556 –> 00:27:24,586
Yeah
Chris Stemp
00:27:24,586 –> 00:27:32,856
… and their worldview is valued. And if you ask a persister for their opinion, you are showing them you trust them.
Shaun Dyke
00:27:32,856 –> 00:27:37,255
So persisters rarely come to their opinions just through accident.
Chris Stemp
00:27:37,255 –> 00:27:37,576
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:27:37,576 –> 00:27:38,636
It’s considered.
Chris Stemp
00:27:38,636 –> 00:27:38,896
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:27:38,896 –> 00:27:48,396
They typically have thought it through. Why? Because if I’m gonna be willing to stand on that one, I need to make sure that it’s the right thing to say.
Chris Stemp
00:27:48,396 –> 00:27:48,786
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:27:48,786 –> 00:27:56,295
And if I’m going to state that with conviction, I have to know that I believe in that deeply, and I’m going to press on that one.
Chris Stemp
00:27:56,295 –> 00:27:56,774
Mm.
Shaun Dyke
00:27:56,775 –> 00:28:15,015
We always say the persister’s got that head space that says, “I’m not arguing with you, I’m just explaining why I’m right.” [laughs] “I just need you to understand,” right? So there was this moment in this, uh… It was, it was a great one. My, my wife has a fair bit of this in her as well, and I really appreciated this moment a long time ago. I wanted to buy a car for something. Um, uh, for something-
Chris Stemp
00:28:15,015 –> 00:28:15,024
[laughs]
Shaun Dyke
00:28:15,024 –> 00:28:16,146
… ’cause I like cars. [laughs]
Chris Stemp
00:28:16,146 –> 00:28:18,086
I wanted to buy a car for something. [laughs]
Shaun Dyke
00:28:18,086 –> 00:28:18,096
Buy a car for something.
Chris Stemp
00:28:18,096 –> 00:28:19,176
There are no dumb places.
Shaun Dyke
00:28:19,176 –> 00:28:20,086
It wasn’t like I was using it to haul. [laughs]
Chris Stemp
00:28:20,086 –> 00:28:20,315
[laughs]
Shaun Dyke
00:28:20,316 –> 00:28:26,156
Yeah, I just wanted a car. Um, and she said, “Do we need it?” And I was like, “Well, no, of course, we don’t need it.”
Chris Stemp
00:28:26,156 –> 00:28:26,206
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:28:26,206 –> 00:28:28,786
“It doesn’t, it doesn’t… You know, well, does it make any sense? No.”
Chris Stemp
00:28:28,786 –> 00:28:28,786
Mm.
Shaun Dyke
00:28:28,786 –> 00:28:31,426
“It’s also illogical, right? It doesn’t. It’d just be fun.”
Chris Stemp
00:28:31,426 –> 00:28:31,426
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:28:31,426 –> 00:28:32,056
“I like it.”
Chris Stemp
00:28:32,056 –> 00:28:32,596
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:28:32,596 –> 00:28:47,556
And, um, we got to this point where I was like, “Ah, shoot. She- what she’s saying makes sense.” And so I said, “You know what? It, it, it makes sense. Let, let’s not.” And then she goes, “Okay, um, I appreciate you saying that, but do you understand why I’m saying that?”
Chris Stemp
00:28:47,556 –> 00:28:47,995
Mm.
Shaun Dyke
00:28:47,995 –> 00:28:55,916
She needed to know that she wasn’t just trying to push an agenda, that there was really a reason behind it.
Chris Stemp
00:28:55,916 –> 00:28:56,396
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:28:56,396 –> 00:29:03,255
And me needing to articulate, “Y- yeah, here’s your thought line behind it and why it makes sense.”
Chris Stemp
00:29:03,255 –> 00:29:03,795
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:29:03,795 –> 00:29:16,856
So it’s not enough at times… They’re n- not trying to bully you into their belief. They’re really genuinely trying to convey a vantage point that they’re hopeful you come around to seeing it-
Chris Stemp
00:29:16,856 –> 00:29:17,045
There you go
Shaun Dyke
00:29:17,045 –> 00:29:18,226
… from that perspective as well.
Chris Stemp
00:29:18,226 –> 00:29:18,616
There you go.
Shaun Dyke
00:29:18,616 –> 00:29:18,735
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:29:18,735 –> 00:29:38,476
And, uh, look, I have to say this, because I think you have persisters in your life, right? And if you understand where they’re coming from, it opens up that, uh, reality that, hey, maybe even if I don’t believe it, I know where it’s coming from, why it’s happening, and I can respond accordingly.
Shaun Dyke
00:29:38,476 –> 00:29:38,795
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:29:38,795 –> 00:29:49,876
So oftentimes, I will say things like, “You know, I really do appreciate your opinion and know it’s well thought through. I don’t cur- you know, I don’t exactly agree with that, but I’m gonna take it into consideration-
Shaun Dyke
00:29:49,876 –> 00:29:49,885
Sure
Chris Stemp
00:29:49,885 –> 00:29:53,676
… or whatever.” And then at least they’re going, “Okay, I feel valued.”
Shaun Dyke
00:29:53,676 –> 00:29:53,936
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:29:53,936 –> 00:30:01,116
Remember what you said, is every interaction is either relationship improving or relationship breaking? This is one of those examples-
Shaun Dyke
00:30:01,116 –> 00:30:01,255
Yeah
Chris Stemp
00:30:01,255 –> 00:30:09,446
… around the Thanksgiving table or wherever it might be, where we often… Somebody states a, an opinion, and we wanna just-
Shaun Dyke
00:30:09,446 –> 00:30:09,505
Jump at it
Chris Stemp
00:30:09,505 –> 00:30:10,616
… attack it or bark at it.
Shaun Dyke
00:30:10,616 –> 00:30:10,876
Yep, yep.
Chris Stemp
00:30:10,876 –> 00:30:17,255
And for the persister, that is an attack on them, not just an idea.
Shaun Dyke
00:30:17,255 –> 00:30:17,466
Yeah, entirely.
Chris Stemp
00:30:17,466 –> 00:30:19,356
And I think that’s a huge takeaway for this.
Shaun Dyke
00:30:19,356 –> 00:30:20,795
Don’t take the bait-
Chris Stemp
00:30:20,795 –> 00:30:21,196
There you go
Shaun Dyke
00:30:21,196 –> 00:30:28,795
… in those spots, right. And one of my favorite quotes is the Aristotle quote of, “The mark of intelligence is the ability to entertain a thought without accepting it.”
Chris Stemp
00:30:28,795 –> 00:30:29,235
There you go. Yep.
Shaun Dyke
00:30:29,235 –> 00:30:36,860
I’m not asking you to accept this. I’m just offering it as consideration, as-… intellectual fodder for us to think through and consider if it is something.
Chris Stemp
00:30:36,860 –> 00:30:36,960
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:30:36,960 –> 00:30:49,999
So, um, the part that we wanna highlight for the persister, if you’re driving or if you’re on a treadmill right now thinking about this, is what does it look like whenever that shadow side shows up in you?
Chris Stemp
00:30:50,000 –> 00:30:50,980
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:30:50,980 –> 00:31:17,440
The mindfulness for you is that when that distress pattern shows up for- in you, you can start to become what we call preachy. You get what’s known as parent-child. You start pushing your beliefs and pressing your viewpoint with extra explanation, more words, more emphatically around why, and you can become a bully.
Chris Stemp
00:31:17,440 –> 00:31:17,720
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:31:17,720 –> 00:31:42,160
You can get unrelenting. Now, if you’re in that space, and you say, like, “Ah, shoot, I do know I do that,” if you’re in the spot that’s like, “Well, I don’t think I do that,” it’s a great way to check that. Just ask some of the people closest in your life. They’ll probably give you some feedback as to the tendency you have to do that. It’s not like this is a fundamental character flaw in who you are. It’s recognizing that that deep conviction and that value set that you have materializes in a way that creates that press.
Chris Stemp
00:31:42,160 –> 00:31:49,040
Yes, and to kind of bring this one to a close, I wanted to talk about… You just mentioned the word conviction.
Shaun Dyke
00:31:49,040 –> 00:31:49,420
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:31:49,420 –> 00:31:57,660
We talked about for thinker, what is their psychological need or psychological needs? For the persister, one of them is a recognition of conviction.
Shaun Dyke
00:31:57,660 –> 00:31:58,240
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:31:58,240 –> 00:32:09,540
We can tell the persisters in our lives or those that we’re around, “Hey, you know, I really appreciate your dedication to that cause, your, uh, push for that belief, your commitment to this.”
Shaun Dyke
00:32:09,540 –> 00:32:10,120
Yes.
Chris Stemp
00:32:10,120 –> 00:32:32,400
And as a persister yourself, if you are, you need that, so find ways to get this need met. I’ll never forget, was teaching a, a workshop, and I asked, ’cause I don’t have a lot of this, “How do you get it met as a persister?” And somebody in the class was like, “Oh, that’s easy. I am the, uh, president of our HOA,” and I literally, like-
Shaun Dyke
00:32:32,400 –> 00:32:32,670
[laughing]
Chris Stemp
00:32:32,670 –> 00:32:33,440
… gagged on the drink.
Shaun Dyke
00:32:33,440 –> 00:32:35,020
You are the people I can’t stand! [laughing]
Chris Stemp
00:32:35,080 –> 00:32:41,370
That, yeah, as my personality type, which we’ll get into next. I said, “I always wondered who would do that.” [laughing]
Shaun Dyke
00:32:41,370 –> 00:32:41,420
[laughing]
Chris Stemp
00:32:41,420 –> 00:32:45,229
And this woman, very politely, was like, “Yeah, because I-
Shaun Dyke
00:32:45,229 –> 00:32:46,840
Those of us that care would do it, Chris.
Chris Stemp
00:32:46,840 –> 00:32:47,849
I- pretty much.
Shaun Dyke
00:32:47,849 –> 00:32:48,090
Yeah. [laughing] Yeah, exactly.
Chris Stemp
00:32:48,090 –> 00:32:49,080
Like, “Put me in my place.”
Shaun Dyke
00:32:49,080 –> 00:32:49,160
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:32:49,160 –> 00:32:51,660
Like, “Do you wanna live in a neighborhood that is safe?”
Shaun Dyke
00:32:51,660 –> 00:32:51,890
Yeah, yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:32:51,890 –> 00:33:01,660
And I was like, “Oh, you’re right.” So she said, “I, I, I am the president of the HOA because in that environment, I’m often recognized for the conviction I have and the belief sets that I have.”
Shaun Dyke
00:33:01,660 –> 00:33:02,260
That’s entirely-
Chris Stemp
00:33:02,260 –> 00:33:02,920
So that’s one of them.
Shaun Dyke
00:33:02,920 –> 00:33:02,930
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:33:02,930 –> 00:33:04,880
And then recognition of principled work.
Shaun Dyke
00:33:04,880 –> 00:33:05,240
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:33:05,240 –> 00:33:13,240
Right? So the work we’re doing is not just correct, but it is the right work. It is a good work. It is the, the thing we should be spending our time on.
Shaun Dyke
00:33:13,240 –> 00:33:20,430
Okay, so again, that one we could chase for significantly longer. So we’ve hit two. We’ve hit that strong thinker personality type, and we’ve hit that persister personality type.
Chris Stemp
00:33:20,430 –> 00:33:20,980
Yep.
Shaun Dyke
00:33:20,980 –> 00:33:33,980
There’s, um, lots of us in the world that navigate those spaces, and again, we talked about before, there’s no types of people, there’s types in people. So both of these can be prominent and present in you. You may feel both of them very strongly.
Chris Stemp
00:33:33,980 –> 00:33:34,700
Exactly.
Shaun Dyke
00:33:34,700 –> 00:33:40,430
One other personality type that we’re gonna talk to, uh, today takes a different approach to the world. [laughing]
Chris Stemp
00:33:40,430 –> 00:33:41,330
[laughing] Slightly different.
Shaun Dyke
00:33:41,330 –> 00:33:44,580
Not necessarily like the thinker and the persister in it.
Chris Stemp
00:33:44,580 –> 00:33:44,660
Yep.
Shaun Dyke
00:33:44,660 –> 00:34:00,849
Um, this is that personality type we spoke to a little bit before that just, man, really looks through the world through a lens of fun and excitement and joy and play and experience, and so this is that personality type that I actually don’t love the title for. I think we’re actually looking at changing it-
Chris Stemp
00:34:00,849 –> 00:34:00,849
Hmm
Shaun Dyke
00:34:00,849 –> 00:34:02,640
… as well. This is called the rebel, right?
Chris Stemp
00:34:02,640 –> 00:34:03,340
You know, I don’t know.
Shaun Dyke
00:34:03,340 –> 00:34:03,360
I think-
Chris Stemp
00:34:03,360 –> 00:34:04,750
You, you don’t agree with that title?
Shaun Dyke
00:34:04,750 –> 00:34:07,320
I… No, ’cause I think rebel can get the wrong connotation-
Chris Stemp
00:34:07,320 –> 00:34:07,860
And I don’t-
Shaun Dyke
00:34:07,860 –> 00:34:07,870
… with it
Chris Stemp
00:34:07,870 –> 00:34:09,370
… feel like it is rebellious.
Shaun Dyke
00:34:09,370 –> 00:34:09,400
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:34:09,400 –> 00:34:14,540
Genuinely, as somebody with very strong, uh, rebel parts, the way
Chris Stemp
00:34:14,540 –> 00:34:24,889
I explain it the, the clearest is life is meant to be enjoyed. We get one trip. Like, that’s how I think of it, right? Now, you can imagine the strengths that come with that.
Shaun Dyke
00:34:24,889 –> 00:34:24,940
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:34:24,940 –> 00:34:37,900
Um, typically, a levity, a fun, a joy. I had somebody recently that I was working with a lot said, “I really appreciated your rebel energy. You often, uh, put me at ease in stressful situations.”
Shaun Dyke
00:34:37,900 –> 00:34:38,289
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:34:38,289 –> 00:34:41,040
Uh, ’cause I would say to her, like, “It’s not that big a deal. Don’t worry about it.”
Shaun Dyke
00:34:41,040 –> 00:34:41,420
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:34:41,420 –> 00:34:43,920
Because it’s not, because we only get one trip here.
Shaun Dyke
00:34:43,920 –> 00:34:44,500
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:34:44,500 –> 00:34:47,520
Also, there’s a spontaneity that comes with it.
Shaun Dyke
00:34:47,520 –> 00:34:48,219
Yes.
Chris Stemp
00:34:48,219 –> 00:35:06,010
This workshop or this model taught me about that. I thought that was normal. I have forever had a belief that if you could say, “Chris, we are gonna plan out your day, and it’s exactly how it’s gonna happen,” or, “You get no idea what’s gonna happen,” why would I ever plan it out?
Shaun Dyke
00:35:06,010 –> 00:35:06,040
[laughing]
Chris Stemp
00:35:06,040 –> 00:35:15,740
That takes all of the fun or chaos or… It just… Like, when I go on vacations, half the time I don’t even wanna know where I’m going.
Shaun Dyke
00:35:15,740 –> 00:35:16,120
Yeah. Show up.
Chris Stemp
00:35:16,120 –> 00:35:18,940
I have gone on vacation without a hotel-
Shaun Dyke
00:35:18,940 –> 00:35:19,470
Yeah
Chris Stemp
00:35:19,470 –> 00:35:22,060
… because that is the excitement and the joy.
Shaun Dyke
00:35:22,060 –> 00:35:22,540
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:35:22,540 –> 00:35:25,040
Um, and so you can imagine there is a fun to that.
Shaun Dyke
00:35:25,040 –> 00:35:32,290
There’s a good calibration that exists in the rebel por- personality, where they’re good at not over-indexing on taking things too seriously.
Chris Stemp
00:35:32,290 –> 00:35:32,300
Hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:35:32,300 –> 00:35:58,760
Like, we can get, uh, intense in the way that we approach the world, and I think, think rebels do a really nice job of creating a little bit of balance in that. They bring that play. They bring the creativity to it. Rebel mindsets are phenomenal at being innovative. They’re, they are really good at considering what’s possible, what exists in a white space that others… that might tend to go through a more gravity and grounded-based doorway.
Chris Stemp
00:35:58,760 –> 00:35:59,180
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:35:59,180 –> 00:36:22,750
Rebels are really good at operating without gravity and in a space where they’re like, “Who knows what this could be, but let’s create possibility with it?” The hard part is, um, that play, that creativity, that enthusiasm, that spontaneity, when we live in a heavily dominated thinker, persister, structure, calendar, organized timeline world, well, they can bump into that awkwardly, and that can piss some people off.
Chris Stemp
00:36:22,750 –> 00:36:22,780
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:36:22,780 –> 00:36:40,760
It can be irritating. It can feel like, “Right now is not the right time to play. It’s inappropriate to joke around right now,” as the persister might say. Or the thinker can be irritated because the rebel chooses to show up late to a meeting and disrespected them or the time that they could spend in there, but rebels can struggle with responsibility.
Chris Stemp
00:36:40,760 –> 00:36:41,340
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:36:41,340 –> 00:36:45,580
So they can, they can have a hard time with doing the things that need to be done.
Chris Stemp
00:36:45,580 –> 00:36:46,320
Because-
Shaun Dyke
00:36:46,320 –> 00:36:46,600
Yep
Chris Stemp
00:36:46,600 –> 00:36:51,960
… responsibility in and of itself, by definition to the rebel-… is the opposite of fun.
Shaun Dyke
00:36:51,960 –> 00:36:52,779
Yeah, yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:36:52,779 –> 00:36:52,940
You know?
Shaun Dyke
00:36:52,940 –> 00:37:00,540
R- and rebels often, so let’s make a linkage into some of that. Rebels, you know, they, they, um, they’re not, um, mediocre in their viewpoints.
Chris Stemp
00:37:00,540 –> 00:37:00,920
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Shaun Dyke
00:37:00,920 –> 00:37:02,520
They either love stuff or they hate stuff.
Chris Stemp
00:37:02,520 –> 00:37:02,899
[laughs]
Shaun Dyke
00:37:02,900 –> 00:37:21,380
Right? There’s these- there’s extremes in it, like, “That’s incredible!” or, “This sucks,” right? You’re gonna get… You’re gonna get an emphatic range inside of that because the feelings tied into playfulness, and fun, and spontaneity is really exciting. This is why there can be some linkages into rebel personality types and procrastination.
Chris Stemp
00:37:21,380 –> 00:37:21,690
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:37:21,690 –> 00:37:34,060
And I think this was one of those cool things that I discovered as well throughout the journey along the way. I didn’t discover, I became aware of, better said. Procrastination is not a time management issue. It is an emotion regulation issue.
Chris Stemp
00:37:34,060 –> 00:37:34,480
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:37:34,480 –> 00:37:41,540
So the degree to which I am willing to do the thing that I don’t want to do, that’s no fun.
Chris Stemp
00:37:41,540 –> 00:37:41,750
There you go.
Shaun Dyke
00:37:41,750 –> 00:37:47,480
So doing the responsible activities aren’t fun. I don’t like those. I don’t wanna do those things.
Chris Stemp
00:37:47,480 –> 00:37:47,880
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:37:47,880 –> 00:38:01,080
Rebel personality type is encouraged that they become conscious of the tendency to deflect the responsibility because it’s coming from a place of it’s not joy-inviting for them. It’s… It’s not… It… You don’t feel fun.
Chris Stemp
00:38:01,080 –> 00:38:01,420
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:38:01,420 –> 00:38:01,740
It’s not-
Chris Stemp
00:38:01,740 –> 00:38:21,450
The rebel’s lens is that joy, and fun, and spontaneity, and creativity, then anything that they perceive as the opposite of that, not only is it going to be distressing, but they probably just won’t do it. Because there’s a almost a lack of seriousness in some of it.
Shaun Dyke
00:38:21,450 –> 00:38:21,460
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:38:21,460 –> 00:38:22,020
You know what I mean?
Shaun Dyke
00:38:22,020 –> 00:38:24,299
And you already said it before, life’s not that big of a deal.
Chris Stemp
00:38:24,299 –> 00:38:24,460
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:38:24,460 –> 00:38:28,130
So if I don’t do it, and you’re irritated or pissed off about it, it’s ex- lighten up. It’s not that big of a deal.
Chris Stemp
00:38:28,130 –> 00:38:28,160
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:38:28,160 –> 00:38:28,560
Why worry about it?
Chris Stemp
00:38:28,560 –> 00:38:29,200
Lighten up.
Shaun Dyke
00:38:29,200 –> 00:38:29,400
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:38:29,400 –> 00:38:29,650
Right, yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:38:29,650 –> 00:38:32,529
It’s not, not a big deal. Okay, I want you to speak to this part of it-
Chris Stemp
00:38:32,529 –> 00:38:32,529
Okay
Shaun Dyke
00:38:32,529 –> 00:38:34,310
… because I’ve actually never asked you this question.
Chris Stemp
00:38:34,310 –> 00:38:34,319
Mm.
Shaun Dyke
00:38:34,319 –> 00:38:37,779
So it’s kind of fun to do it live this way. Um, existential question-
Chris Stemp
00:38:37,779 –> 00:38:38,160
Yeah
Shaun Dyke
00:38:38,160 –> 00:38:43,240
… the repetitive question of the thinker, “Am I competent?” Of the persister, “Am I trusted or valued?”
Chris Stemp
00:38:43,240 –> 00:38:44,140
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:38:44,140 –> 00:38:45,779
When you learn what it is of the rebel-
Chris Stemp
00:38:45,779 –> 00:38:45,790
Yeah
Shaun Dyke
00:38:45,790 –> 00:38:55,620
… I’m curious on how it landed with you when it learned, because the question is, “Am I acceptable?” And even the qualifier, I’ll add to that a little bit, is, “As I am.”
Chris Stemp
00:38:55,620 –> 00:38:56,330
As I am.
Shaun Dyke
00:38:56,330 –> 00:39:00,960
“In the way that I am showing up, will you accept me as I am?”
Chris Stemp
00:39:00,960 –> 00:39:01,100
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:39:01,100 –> 00:39:02,118
Did that land?
Chris Stemp
00:39:02,120 –> 00:39:17,819
It didn’t initially, and I, eh- eh- not that it felt wrong, but it just felt like I need a little bit more. Am I acceptable? Because in truth, at first when I heard that, I thought, “Well, I’m, I’m, I’m fine.”
Shaun Dyke
00:39:17,819 –> 00:39:18,480
I don’t really care.
Chris Stemp
00:39:18,480 –> 00:39:18,959
Yeah!
Shaun Dyke
00:39:18,960 –> 00:39:19,299
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:39:19,299 –> 00:39:34,000
But what I realized is the rebel recognizes that the majority of the world doesn’t have the same perception. We kind of feel there’s a lot of weightiness here, and I don’t have that, you know?
Shaun Dyke
00:39:34,000 –> 00:39:34,180
Yep.
Chris Stemp
00:39:34,180 –> 00:39:36,560
Why, why can’t y’all just lighten up? Why can’t we have fun?
Shaun Dyke
00:39:36,560 –> 00:39:37,580
Why so serious?
Chris Stemp
00:39:37,580 –> 00:39:38,840
Yeah, why so [laughs] serious?
Shaun Dyke
00:39:38,840 –> 00:39:38,859
Yeah. [laughs]
Chris Stemp
00:39:38,859 –> 00:39:46,900
Why can’t we miss this meeting? It’ll be here tomorrow. But we, we know that, and then we know it does shape our behavior.
Shaun Dyke
00:39:46,900 –> 00:39:47,200
Mm-hmm.
Chris Stemp
00:39:47,200 –> 00:40:02,040
So I might show up a little underdressed, or a little late, or a little too casual, and that’s when it hit me. What is distressing is, am I going to show up that way when I shouldn’t and be judged for it?
Shaun Dyke
00:40:02,040 –> 00:40:03,100
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Chris Stemp
00:40:03,100 –> 00:40:05,040
Which is exactly what it is.
Shaun Dyke
00:40:05,040 –> 00:40:10,819
Yeah. People almost always, when they’re learning about rebel, they go, “Oh, my kids are rebels.”
Chris Stemp
00:40:10,819 –> 00:40:11,259
Mm.
Shaun Dyke
00:40:11,259 –> 00:40:14,440
They immediately think their adolescents-
Chris Stemp
00:40:14,440 –> 00:40:14,620
Right
Shaun Dyke
00:40:14,620 –> 00:40:16,520
… so 14 and under, are rebels.
Chris Stemp
00:40:16,520 –> 00:40:16,819
Yep.
Shaun Dyke
00:40:16,819 –> 00:40:17,779
Why?
Chris Stemp
00:40:17,779 –> 00:40:23,440
It is the natural, um, state of a child to want to experience joy-
Shaun Dyke
00:40:23,440 –> 00:40:23,750
Yeah
Chris Stemp
00:40:23,750 –> 00:40:35,830
… and to be curious and spontaneous. It is literally the way we learn how to live in this world. Additionally, I think there’s an element that you’re also not, for better or worse, burdened by as much responsibility.
Shaun Dyke
00:40:35,830 –> 00:40:35,859
[chuckles] Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:40:35,859 –> 00:40:37,959
So there’s a freedom to just experience.
Shaun Dyke
00:40:37,960 –> 00:40:38,920
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:40:38,920 –> 00:40:46,240
We would caution you to call that rebel behavior… Or, or you can call it rebel behavior, but you don’t, uh, to identify them as a rebel.
Shaun Dyke
00:40:46,240 –> 00:40:54,840
Correct. It’s the phrase that I’ve always loved, that I oftentimes have to come back to, that is, “Nothing will sooner drive a parent wild than a child behaving as a child.”
Chris Stemp
00:40:54,840 –> 00:40:55,700
There you go.
Shaun Dyke
00:40:55,700 –> 00:40:58,080
It is, it is child behavior.
Chris Stemp
00:40:58,080 –> 00:40:58,720
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:40:58,720 –> 00:41:11,379
And the funny part about… Well, we know this as well, but the funny part about kids as you go through it is that, um, gosh, you and I are both, I think, in this state with our younger ones right now, where your kids are at a place where they tend to wanna emulate you.
Chris Stemp
00:41:11,380 –> 00:41:11,730
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:41:11,730 –> 00:41:15,950
You know, so when you go out into the lawn, and you put on your, your rubber boots and your [laughs]…
Chris Stemp
00:41:15,950 –> 00:41:17,200
[laughs] Those boots are amazing, by the way.
Shaun Dyke
00:41:17,200 –> 00:41:18,660
They are, I know. [laughs]
Chris Stemp
00:41:18,660 –> 00:41:21,199
And functional! [laughs]
Shaun Dyke
00:41:21,259 –> 00:41:23,590
[laughs] Your kids also put on their rubber boots.
Chris Stemp
00:41:23,590 –> 00:41:23,730
Yes, they do.
Shaun Dyke
00:41:23,730 –> 00:41:24,819
They wanna look like Dad.
Chris Stemp
00:41:24,819 –> 00:41:25,139
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:41:25,140 –> 00:41:34,900
And then they reach this point where they’re trying to figure out who they are, that you are not. They’re trying to understand their place in this space because they’ve almost tried to map themselves to you for a while.
Chris Stemp
00:41:34,900 –> 00:41:35,250
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:41:35,250 –> 00:41:43,890
And then we reach that point where we’re trying to really understand their identity of who we are, that our parents are, and that stage can feel like they’re trying to rebel against me-
Chris Stemp
00:41:43,890 –> 00:41:43,980
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm
Shaun Dyke
00:41:43,980 –> 00:41:45,980
… or their behavior is just being rebellious.
Chris Stemp
00:41:45,980 –> 00:41:46,200
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:41:46,200 –> 00:41:49,680
It’s not mapped to a core personality type like that.
Chris Stemp
00:41:49,680 –> 00:41:49,840
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:41:49,840 –> 00:42:05,600
It’s just part of a l- a, a piece of that behavior. So okay, so if you’re that rebel, what’s the insight for you? It’s being mindful that you do bring incredible, playful spontaneity fun into the world, b- and, uh, you might be better served to be conscious on when you dose that in and when you don’t.
Chris Stemp
00:42:05,600 –> 00:42:06,000
Yes.
Shaun Dyke
00:42:06,000 –> 00:42:11,720
That especially, um, getting your needs met in the wrong setting tends to not serve you.
Chris Stemp
00:42:11,720 –> 00:42:12,020
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:42:12,020 –> 00:42:18,109
So don’t use environments where you wanna be playful, and spontaneous, and fun, when that’s just not really the right time to do that one.
Chris Stemp
00:42:18,109 –> 00:42:18,180
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:42:18,180 –> 00:42:30,279
So regulating and managing that, and at the same time, learning when those are incredibly warranted, and valuable, and needed, and necessary, and trying to bring those things present in it. Because, I mean, we talk about this all the time. When we teach workshops-
Chris Stemp
00:42:30,279 –> 00:42:30,410
Mm-hmm
Shaun Dyke
00:42:30,410 –> 00:42:34,299
… we go through the personality profiles, and we pray that there are rebels in the room.
Chris Stemp
00:42:34,299 –> 00:42:34,740
Right, exactly.
Shaun Dyke
00:42:34,740 –> 00:42:42,100
Because they’re gonna bring energy, and they’re gonna make it a little bit easier. In a world that over-indexes on seriousness, rebels can make it fun.
Chris Stemp
00:42:42,100 –> 00:42:53,859
And the truth is, in a work setting, uh, I had actually a expert on workplace enjoyment tell me, “You probably couldn’t design a less fun environment than corporate America.”
Shaun Dyke
00:42:53,859 –> 00:42:55,000
[laughs] Yeah, totally!
Chris Stemp
00:42:55,000 –> 00:42:55,299
And-
Shaun Dyke
00:42:55,299 –> 00:42:55,390
Sure
Chris Stemp
00:42:55,390 –> 00:42:56,440
… and I was like, “Oh-”
Shaun Dyke
00:42:56,440 –> 00:42:57,299
Maybe a classroom.
Chris Stemp
00:42:57,299 –> 00:42:57,840
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:42:57,840 –> 00:42:58,009
Yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:42:58,009 –> 00:42:58,759
Yeah, that’s true, right?
Shaun Dyke
00:42:58,759 –> 00:42:58,870
Yeah, yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:42:58,870 –> 00:43:02,440
And so this is why often they will self-select into entrepreneurial endeavors-
Shaun Dyke
00:43:02,440 –> 00:43:02,450
Totally
Chris Stemp
00:43:02,450 –> 00:43:03,190
… or the arts-
Shaun Dyke
00:43:03,190 –> 00:43:03,190
Yep
Chris Stemp
00:43:03,190 –> 00:43:04,680
… or creativity-based-
Shaun Dyke
00:43:04,680 –> 00:43:04,819
Yeah
Chris Stemp
00:43:04,819 –> 00:43:33,244
… jobs. Not saying there aren’t a million-… billion rebels in the, the, the corporate world, but, um, that is another thing to be aware of, right? If you feel like this is a strong part of you, and you feel like, “You know, I’m very constrained or constricted in my setting,” there’s an awareness piece. Now, we would say, “Well, what can you do about that?” Now, of course, you can change that setting. You can go find a place, or you can try to do better at getting your psychological needs met-
Shaun Dyke
00:43:33,244 –> 00:43:33,444
Yeah
Chris Stemp
00:43:33,444 –> 00:43:41,024
… which will fortify you against perhaps the structure of work or responsibility of family.
Shaun Dyke
00:43:41,024 –> 00:44:14,804
Yeah, so in the lightest and easiest accessible form, it’s, um, playfulness. It’s spontaneity. It’s connection. It’s not being bored. They’re looking to have an experience where they get excitement, so they want things in their life that bring joy. You talked about it. “This is no fun. I don’t wanna do something in a boring space.” So they need things in their life that bring that present for them. So how do you find spaces where you get to play? This is one of the challenges rebels have in corporate America and in the classroom-
Chris Stemp
00:44:14,804 –> 00:44:15,364
Mm
Shaun Dyke
00:44:15,364 –> 00:44:20,144
… is they try to get those needs met in environments that don’t allow or tolerate that.
Chris Stemp
00:44:20,144 –> 00:44:20,984
Aren’t for them.
Shaun Dyke
00:44:20,984 –> 00:44:21,324
No!
Chris Stemp
00:44:21,324 –> 00:44:21,644
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:44:21,644 –> 00:44:27,654
So the rebel has to figure out, “Where do I get that, that psychological need met? Where do I get play in my life?
Chris Stemp
00:44:27,654 –> 00:44:27,664
And-
Shaun Dyke
00:44:27,664 –> 00:44:28,904
Where do I get a little fun in there?”
Chris Stemp
00:44:28,904 –> 00:44:30,354
Yeah, the freedom to play.
Shaun Dyke
00:44:30,354 –> 00:44:30,364
Yes, yeah.
Chris Stemp
00:44:30,364 –> 00:44:50,364
Especially as you become an adult, and you’re almost told, “Eh, play, it’s not useful.” That’s how I always say it… Not only it’s not useful, it’s not productive. You start having a family, “It’s selfish,” and then this realization that it’s no more selfish than any of the other personality types trying to get their needs met. It just doesn’t always look productive, if you will-
Shaun Dyke
00:44:50,364 –> 00:44:50,694
Yeah, oh, that’s a-
Chris Stemp
00:44:50,694 –> 00:44:51,704
… or intentional, you know?
Shaun Dyke
00:44:51,704 –> 00:44:55,424
That’s an incredible point. Um, I don’t think I’ve actually did the math on that that way before-
Chris Stemp
00:44:55,424 –> 00:44:55,704
Yeah
Shaun Dyke
00:44:55,704 –> 00:44:59,024
… where we talk about psychological needs or fuel for your tank.
Chris Stemp
00:44:59,024 –> 00:44:59,494
Mm-hmm.
Shaun Dyke
00:44:59,494 –> 00:45:04,144
But for the persister and for the thinker, that fuel looks like it’s adding back to society more effectively.
Chris Stemp
00:45:04,144 –> 00:45:04,464
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:45:04,464 –> 00:45:06,084
Whereas the rebel, “Oh, you’re just screwing around.”
Chris Stemp
00:45:06,084 –> 00:45:06,294
Taking, yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:45:06,294 –> 00:45:07,504
“You’re just playing, and you’re taking”-
Chris Stemp
00:45:07,504 –> 00:45:07,514
Exactly
Shaun Dyke
00:45:07,514 –> 00:45:08,624
… which is not accurate at all.
Chris Stemp
00:45:08,624 –> 00:45:09,324
Right.
Shaun Dyke
00:45:09,324 –> 00:45:14,564
Um, so that is really one of their core spaces where they need to get some play in their life.
Chris Stemp
00:45:14,564 –> 00:45:41,864
I would say, if I could add, for rebels listening, it doesn’t have to be big either. Like, yeah, I love golfing. I’ll go golfing. It’s six hours of psych needs, 100%, but if you have six minutes, what is something quick and fun you could do? Maybe it’s, you know, go shoot three baskets outside. Maybe it’s, you know, listen to your music really loud for two minutes and jam or dance or whatever. It’s interspersed play-
Shaun Dyke
00:45:41,864 –> 00:45:42,184
Yeah
Chris Stemp
00:45:42,184 –> 00:45:48,164
… in small moments that allow you that freedom to say, “I feel like I’m enjoying this time.”
Shaun Dyke
00:45:48,164 –> 00:45:50,504
Yeah, we always say, “Well, this is the micro moments,” capitalizing-
Chris Stemp
00:45:50,504 –> 00:45:50,514
There you go
Shaun Dyke
00:45:50,514 –> 00:45:52,384
… on those different pieces in some way, right?
Chris Stemp
00:45:52,384 –> 00:45:52,524
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:45:52,524 –> 00:46:04,084
So for the persister in the world that has a rebel in their life, and they’re being playful, play back. Give it a moment, 30 seconds, 15 seconds, to whatever that is that they need.
Chris Stemp
00:46:04,084 –> 00:46:04,243
Mm.
Shaun Dyke
00:46:04,244 –> 00:46:10,704
Now is not the time to say, “This is inappropriate,” because for the persister, that’s just a… I’m sorry, the rebel, that’s just a big red button.
Chris Stemp
00:46:10,704 –> 00:46:10,784
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:46:10,784 –> 00:46:14,544
They’re gonna jump right on that because they’re gonna get those reactions that they want.
Chris Stemp
00:46:14,544 –> 00:46:14,583
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:46:14,584 –> 00:46:20,424
So that space and the interaction, and I know we’re trying to focus it just on self while we’re here-
Chris Stemp
00:46:20,424 –> 00:46:20,724
Yeah
Shaun Dyke
00:46:20,724 –> 00:46:22,324
… mindfulness around those two.
Chris Stemp
00:46:22,324 –> 00:46:54,944
Yeah, and, you know, as we wrap this up, we’re gonna do more episodes. Obviously, the next one is gonna be on the other three personality types, but we’re gonna do more episodes where we talk about, “Uh, now let’s turn the lens externally. If we have persisters in our life, thinkers in our life, rebels in our life, how do we communicate with them? How do we connect with them better? How do we help with distress?” This is a six-piece puzzle. We have now uncovered half of the first piece. You know what I mean? Hopefully, it adds a little bit of that self-awareness and an aha here or there, um, but it’s a, it’s a journey.
Shaun Dyke
00:46:54,944 –> 00:46:58,364
Yeah, you and I tend to say always when we teach these that we’re just gonna bump into this a bit.
Chris Stemp
00:46:58,364 –> 00:46:58,504
Yeah.
Shaun Dyke
00:46:58,504 –> 00:47:15,424
And so we’re asking you to start understanding when you’re looking at the complexity of the human condition, human dynamics, that you’ve got these constellations of traits that have materialized. We’ve explored three of those that commonly come together to form certain personalities-
Chris Stemp
00:47:15,424 –> 00:47:15,434
Yeah
Shaun Dyke
00:47:15,434 –> 00:47:18,404
… in this case, thinker, persister, and rebel. So-
Chris Stemp
00:47:18,404 –> 00:47:36,564
And I’ll tell you, if you hear this stuff, and you have a quick question, or you need some clarification, shoot me an email. Like, genuinely, I will respond, so just email us, info@door2.com, and we’ll get back to you on just trying to help you understand what some of these things are, so they can help yourself or the relationships in your life.
Shaun Dyke
00:47:36,564 –> 00:47:37,024
Brilliant.
Chris Stemp
00:47:37,024 –> 00:47:37,104
Yep.
Shaun Dyke
00:47:37,104 –> 00:47:39,284
Love it, man. Looking forward to the next one.
Chris Stemp
00:47:39,284 –> 00:47:50,424
Let’s do it. [upbeat music]
