Are You Living Someone Else’s Life? Bo Burick on Climbing the Wrong Mountain

00:24 –> 01:21  Shaun Dyke: Thanks for joining us in the Arena. My name is Shaun Dyke, Managing Partner with Door2. Starting thought for today. We, we talk about the Arena as this space where you do the hard work. Uh, you’re not a spectator in the stands. You get in, and you, you grind it out. You put in the blood, sweat, and tears to achieve those lofty life goals that we might have. But have you ever found yourself in a spot where you put in the work, and you achieved the goal, but it’s no longer fulfilling? The, the task, or the accomplishment, or the, the hope that you had that you wanted to fulfill, you were successful in doing so, and now you’ve found yourself in that space where attaining that success really doesn’t have you fulfilled at the level you want to be fulfilled. That’s what we’re gonna grapple with today. And joining us today is my colleague Bo Burick. Bo is a partner here in the firm with us, and incredibly excited to have you here today, man.

01:21 –> 01:22  Bo Burick: So good to be here.

01:22 –> 01:23  Shaun Dyke: It’s nice.

01:23 –> 01:23  Bo Burick: So good to be here.

01:23 –> 01:25  Shaun Dyke: It’s been a minute. We haven’t got to hang out in, in the flesh in a while.

01:25 –> 01:26  Bo Burick: Yeah, not enough. Not enough.

01:26 –> 01:26  Shaun Dyke: It’s, uh-

01:26 –> 01:28  Bo Burick: It’s almost like you’re busy.

01:28 –> 01:38  Shaun Dyke: Yeah. There, there’s some truth to that, isn’t it? Uh but at the same time, we prioritize it and make more of it. Start with who Bo is today. Where’s Bo? Where would we find Bo today, and who are you?

01:38 –> 02:13  Bo Burick: Well, it’s gonna… It sounds a little trite, but it’s, like, I’m someone who wakes up every day and just, uh, lots of gratitude with where I’m at. Um, doesn’t mean anything’s easy, but I’m very, uh, excited every day to, to get to do what I do. Um, little more, uh, granular about who I am. So, uh, part of the gratitude, uh, my family. So, um, married to my wife Monica. We call her MJ. Uh, 28 years. Um, my rock-

02:13 –> 02:14  Shaun Dyke: 28 years?

02:14 –> 02:14  Bo Burick: 20-

02:14 –> 02:17  Shaun Dyke: Wow, you got married when you were 12.

02:17 –> 02:20  Bo Burick: Yeah. Nice. Nice. Uh, that would be a crime in some, uh, states.

02:20 –> 02:22  Shaun Dyke: Sorry, sorry. Yeah, yeah. My bad.

02:22 –> 02:48  Bo Burick: Yeah. Uh, no. [laughs] Uh, yes, so 28 years. She’s a rock and foundation. She’s the one who pushes me, keeps me honest. Um she’s unbelievable. Um, also in gratitude, three kids, um, all chasing their dreams, switched on. Like, as a parent, what, what more could you ever want than to have three kids, uh, out doing their thing? Uh, empty nest, hard.

02:48 –> 02:50  Shaun Dyke: That’s right. Just-

02:50 –> 02:51  Bo Burick: But, but some good

02:51 –> 02:52  Shaun Dyke: When did that happen?

02:52 –> 02:58  Bo Burick: Uh, a couple years ago. Yeah. We, our youngest, uh, he, he, he left at 17, for good reasons for good reasons. But, uh, yeah, and so that kind of fast-forwarded some of our, uh… Like, I love to say it, but, like, uh, when the kids leave the house, you and your wife start dating again-

02:58 –> 03:10  Shaun Dyke: Yeah. [laughs]

03:10 –> 03:34  Bo Burick: … ’cause there’s no way that after 28, or after 20 years of having kids in the house that you haven’t changed and evolved. So anyway, that’s been kind of a, a fun process. Again, part of the gratitude, um, having that, that special person like MJ in your life for so long. Um, keeping you, keeping you, uh, supporting you in your journey, or me in my journey, which has been just, uh, so powerful. So powerful.

03:34 –> 03:37  Shaun Dyke: Now you’re with us. How long…? I should know this, but how long with us now? What are we knocking on?

03:37 –> 03:39  Bo Burick: It’s not quite two and a half-

03:39 –> 03:39  Shaun Dyke: Two, two and a half?

03:39 –> 03:43  Bo Burick: Not quite two years. But there was a dating process before that, you know? So…

03:43 –> 03:45  Shaun Dyke: So we’ve known each other for three-plus years.

03:45 –> 03:51  Bo Burick: Yeah. There was an option to buy at some point, and and we’re all together now. But, uh, yeah.

03:51 –> 03:52  Shaun Dyke: It wasn’t a straight line to get here by, by any means, and so I, I like the phrase you just used about your kids. You said they’re switched on.

03:52 –> 03:58  Bo Burick: Mm. No

03:58 –> 04:03  Shaun Dyke: So were you switched on as a kid? Like, how were you as a kid?

04:03 –> 04:07  Bo Burick: Uh, so let’s make a distinction. Switched on intrinsically versus extrinsically, right?

04:07 –> 04:09  Shaun Dyke: Yeah. Nice. Chase that.

04:09 –> 04:48  Bo Burick: Um, so I was the youngest of three, uh, by a good stretch, you know, so seven, eight years from my older, uh, brother and sister, um, in a charged household, so har- hard. Hard house. A lot of tension. Um, and I saw a lot of disagreement, a lot of fighting. Um, not physical fighting, but, uh, disagreement on how people were supposed to be running their lives, um, expectations. And, uh, and kind of central to that, I would say, is, you know, my father, who’s, uh, uh, who recently passed great man-

04:48 –> 04:50  Shaun Dyke: Mm-hmm

04:50 –> 04:57  Bo Burick: … um, but had clear standards and expectations. Um, as the youngest I was a born observer, right?

04:57 –> 05:00  Shaun Dyke: Mm-hmm

05:00 –> 06:34  Bo Burick: I’m paying attention. I’m seeing what’s going on. Seldom was I directly involved in any of the tension because I’m just the little guy. You know? And so I was able to watch what was going on inside that household, you know, how, um, my father and my brother would. have, you know, battles over hair length, and education- … and music and all of these things, right? Or, uh, so anything like that that would go on, any type of, uh, of argument or disconnection, uh, for me, as I’m watching that, I’m thinking, “I just want none of that. I want none of that.” And so I think it really played into. the early decision I want, was, um, I want to make that guy happy. And that b- that guy being my dad. Like, I want him to be proud of me. I don’t want there to be division. And so I think, you know, that motivation was not emanating from me internally. It was wanting to have that external-I wanted him to be proud, external validation. So from a very early age, I think it was, it puts me onto a path of figure out what he sees as success, the right things to do. Um, and, and I wanna say, it’s like. he’s just trying to educate me in what he sees as what’s gonna make me successful and happy.

06:34 –> 06:40  Shaun Dyke: When did you figure out what it was that you needed to do to make him proud?

06:40 –> 06:45  Bo Burick: It was never, it was never hard on my dad to let him, let me know what I should be doing. So [laughs]—

06:45 –> 06:46  Shaun Dyke: He was open with it.

06:46 –> 07:37  Bo Burick: He was op- yeah. I mean, we had lots of fun. Um, but it was also very clear. Like, um, you know, he spent, uh, the majority of his life, especially post-college, building huge public works all around this world, you know, freeways, bridges, dams, uh, you name it, pipelines, right? Like, things that move the planet forward. So he had a very high regard for what he contributed to the community and, and world at large. And he’s like, I… He couldn’t imagine, uh, someone not wanting to do the same exact thing. So f- it was not hard for him to say, “Bo, you should be an engineer.”. You know, “Follow in my footsteps,” like, “Look at the great things that are happening.” And so, um, so I absolutely went along with that. I mean, it wasn’t like he was trying to sell me a bad vision.

07:37 –> 07:37  Shaun Dyke: Willingly. Right, right.

07:37 –> 08:15  Bo Burick: Yeah, and I was like, “That sounds like a good idea.”. “Let’s, let’s do that. Uh, how do we get there?” “Well, you go to engineering school.” Um, and he also had a, a, a passion as a young person. He wanted to fly, and so he started marrying, you know, my dedication to, uh, I had a sense of service as a young person, um, flying, and then comes about the Air Force Academy. And so with all of those things, uh, it made a pretty clear direction, let’s say long-term, that I was able to define, um, you know, w- how I wanted to string things together. It’s not what you’re doing.

08:15 –> 08:18  Shaun Dyke: And just for those that may not know, getting into the Air Force Academy is not an easy task.

08:18 –> 08:41  Bo Burick: No, it’s- It’s, yeah, it’s not. And so I, I did focus a lot on school. Um, I did, I got my Eagle Scout. I mean, that was kind of a non-negotiable, you know with, with my dad. Um, and so, and, and that was, you know, service. And so I think it was, it was easy to, uh, to have a clear vision of what I wanted to do and where I wanted to go.

08:41 –> 09:17  Shaun Dyke: So can I ask, these, the… So let’s string together some of these accomplishments or chase them a minute. Like, like let’s say, uh, being academically capable and, um, uh, being an Eagle Scout, and, and all the steps along the way to get to that. That’s, that’s a process in and of itself. Getting accepted into the Air Force Academy. There’s two kind of questions. Number one, did you internalize those wins? Did you feel those as prideful moments, or were they. other-oriented self-worth? Meaning, if you did it and your dad said, “Nice job,” is that what you inventoried as the win, or do you even know?

09:17 –> 10:07  Bo Burick: Uh, I would s- I was certainly not conscious of it. For sure. Um, I do know, like, because the goals were so discrete, uh, in terms of Eagle Scout or getting high marks in school or, um, even in sports, being recognized as, uh, a, an excellent player. I, I was recruited to play water polo at the academy. So excelling in those areas, like, I didn’t have to be told, “Good job,” ’cause I knew hitting those marks were completely in an alignment with where I wanted to go. Everyone’s looking at these accomplish, accomplishments and saying, “Oh, these are all great. These are all great.” So I felt, I was really excited about where I was going. There was no question if I was doing the right thing based upon the plan that I had kind of internalized.

10:07 –> 10:22  Shaun Dyke: Yeah. So, uh, we said switched on earlier. We said like switched on self or switched on from the outside, so let’s language that as intrinsic or extrinsic. Like, intrinsically switched on, that’s me. Extrinsically switched on, that’s someone else. Did it ever move to intrinsically being switched on?

10:22 –> 10:45  Bo Burick: Uh, I would say yes, for sure, um, because you become so committed to it, it feels intrinsic. There’s no question about that. Um, and you s- you talked about the not knowing. So at that point, you think you’re intrinsically motivated, and yet you have no idea that you’re not.

10:45 –> 10:48  Shaun Dyke: Yeah. That’s, that’s the tee up that I’m gonna ex-

10:48 –> 10:48  Bo Burick: [laughs] Yeah.

10:48 –> 11:03  Shaun Dyke: Which have us chase in a bit. ’Cause that’s one of those really complex places for us to live in. Is fundamentally, you, you believe and perceive that, “I’m the master of my destiny. I have m- these are choices I have made because I want these things.”

11:03 –> 11:04  Bo Burick: Who wouldn’t wanna be doing this?

11:04 –> 11:21  Shaun Dyke: Right, right, and, and I- And I’m finding joy in and it’s serving me. Which only exaggerates, and I’m, I’m jumping a little far, but it only exaggerates, I feel like, the bump when we realize, “Wait, am I living my life?”. But let’s not jump ahead yet.

11:21 –> 11:24  Bo Burick: Or have I been lying to myself this whole time?

11:24 –> 11:40  Shaun Dyke: And that’s a hell of a confrontation to have with ourself. We’ll, we’ll skip a couple steps, and we’ve, uh, we’ve found ourselves in Air Force Academy from which you graduated. And we always have the hard time with the fact that you were in the lesser of the branches, uh, Air Force. I was a Navy guy.

11:40 –> 11:41  Bo Burick: I know.

11:41 –> 11:41  Shaun Dyke: And, you know.

11:41 –> 11:49  Bo Burick: Well, we, I explained this once to you. Like, as soon as I learned to read, the Navy wouldn’t take me. So that was not my fault. I didn’t realize that was an issue.

11:49 –> 11:56  Shaun Dyke: You know, and, and as I’ve always said, I was enlisted and you were officer, so I have to default to respect to you. Otherwise, there’s no way I’d extend it. So [laughs]—

11:56 –> 11:58  Bo Burick: I’d rather earn respect, but okay.

11:58 –> 12:16  Shaun Dyke: [laughs] You did. And you have it, guaranteed. So let’s talk about, uh, sort of, well, I’m gonna call it the first life. So if we think about we’re watching your early career highlight reel.You know, you’re, you’re in it, a- as an engineer uh, and you’re doing the things. What’s it look like?

12:16 –> 12:30  Bo Burick: So in high school, you’re still kind of young and you’re just, you’re just trying to figure out, “How am I gonna get to the Academy? Um, how am I gonna finish [laughs] my Eagle Scout?” Which I literally did the day before I aged out of the program. So-

12:30 –> 12:31  Shaun Dyke: Nailed it.

12:31 –> 12:57  Bo Burick: Sure, yeah. [laughs]. Yes, no time wasted. Uh, but the, the reality was is by the time I got to the Academy, I was a little bit at that point on, um, cruise control, in the sense like I’m working really hard, I’m executing the plan, um, but I’m not sure why at this point. But there’s no reason to stop what I’m doing. And so-

12:57 –> 13:00  Shaun Dyke: And you’re g- uh, ground me in age at this point. How old-ish?

13:00 –> 13:12  Bo Burick: So, you know, I guess it’s like 20. Around 20 you start to have this sense of like, “Well, I’m, I’m exactly where I’m supposed to be, um, but am I feeling a passion around this?” And I, I think that’s probably, uh, being honest, like I wasn’t aware of it, but I was kind of lacking that-

13:12 –> 13:19  Shaun Dyke: Mm-hmm

13:19 –> 13:31  Bo Burick: … that passion at that point. But only in the sense that it’s not slowing me down from going straight, straight ahead with the same plan.

13:31 –> 13:49  Shaun Dyke: So you’re, you’re. living that life for quite a while. Uh we get married, children come into the picture. And you’re in a, you’re in a space where you’re building great things and doing great things in the, in the eyes of your father. H- his view of you at that point?

13:49 –> 14:28  Bo Burick: Yeah, endless pride. You know? Um, k- kind of a good story around that. So, uh, so went to the Academy, I spent. better part of five years on active duty, uh, not doing engineering, but doing Air Force disaster control stuff, right? And, um, so not really engineering, but still serving my country, loving it. Um, my dad was excited for all of that. Um, the first time that maybe the plan deviated a bit was my junior year in, when I was at the Academy. And, um, and I d- made the decision that I’m not gonna fly. And-

14:28 –> 14:29  Shaun Dyke: Your intention was to be a pilot.

14:29 –> 15:13  Bo Burick: I went there with the idea that I was gonna fly. And, um, my junior year c- it, I had met Monica. Um, that was the first time where I s- I started really thinking outside of myself. You know, so introduce Monica, um, it was pretty clear straightawa- straightaway that she was the one. You know? Like, this is the person I want to spend the rest of my days with. Um, and I started thinking, “Well, what does my life look like with her?” All due respect to every military member that goes the full 20 plus in service of the country, um, that’s a, that’s an amazing thing that they do. Um, I knew that wasn’t my path. Um, ’cause it’s hard for the military member, but then it’s their family.

15:13 –> 15:16  Shaun Dyke: Family system. It’s difficult. It’s difficult. Again extreme admiration for those that do it.

15:16 –> 15:54  Bo Burick: Super hard. Absolutely. And, and so I, I was starting to make… I had a different lens at that point. And so I was thinking, “Well, what’s my life gonna look like in the military with Monica?” And I was like, “Eh, it’s probably, doesn’t look great if I’m in it for flying 20 years, et cetera.” So I made that first decision, like, “I’m not gonna fly.” And, um, there wasn’t a lot… And when I was telling my dad this, uh, there wasn’t a lot of, uh, frustration or anything like that, because I was gonna be an engineer, you know? So my, my plan B was still on, you know- … on course.

15:54 –> 15:55  Shaun Dyke: You hadn’t shifted to concert pianist.

15:55 –> 15:56  Bo Burick: Right. [laughs]

15:56 –> 15:57  Shaun Dyke: Nothing against concert pianist.

15:57 –> 16:00  Bo Burick: Exactly, right. That would be ugly. So-

16:00 –> 16:04  Shaun Dyke: It was still in the lane of what was perceived as worthy and acceptable.

16:04 –> 16:32  Bo Burick: I mean, if, if nothing else, it’s gonna be closer to him. Which takes me back to the original story, was, um, at one point in my early career, I designed a bridge that his construction company built. And so, um, one of, like the peak of, of that connectivity inside the industry was, um, the plans that I had prepared and signed, um, he, he had that put under glass. And ’cause it and all that. So it was-

16:32 –> 16:34  Shaun Dyke: That’s cool. That’s incredible

16:34 –> 16:42  Bo Burick: … it was a really cool thing. And I really, it’s like you feel like you really delivered. Um and so, uh, so that was a special point.

16:42 –> 17:07  Shaun Dyke: I’m thinking about that moment of that signed plan underneath the glass on both sides. Like that’s, that’s one of the things that I think it’s important. These weren’t false, fabricated feeling states of pride. Those were real. Those are genuinely true things. It wasn’t like you’re in this space where you’re like, “I’m just faking this.”. These are real. Is that fair?

17:07 –> 17:14  Bo Burick: Yeah. There was, nothing was generated. It was all authentic. Um, but then you start seeing the signs.

17:14 –> 17:22  Shaun Dyke: Yeah. So that’s the question I was gonna ask you, which is when did you start to realize you were following a script and not writing one?

17:22 –> 17:45  Bo Burick: Two distinct recollections. And th- and, and these were present thoughts. But the first sign was when I was, uh, in my engineering career, I was designing bridges, I was loving it. Um, the CEO saw that I had leadership capabilities that were unique within my age group. And he… So we always talk about it in the firm, um, shoulding all over people.

17:45 –> 17:47  Shaun Dyke: Yeah. [laughs]

17:47 –> 17:47  Bo Burick: So I got I got my first big should, uh, from the CEO, who was a fantastic man. And, uh, he said, “You know what you should do? You should run transportation projects.”

17:47 –> 18:01  Shaun Dyke: Telling you should on people

18:01 –> 18:24  Bo Burick: At that moment, I was like, “I’m gonna leave something that I genuinely love and take pride in, in terms of the, the technical development of designs for bridges and all that stuff.”And move into a should direction. Right? And I remember thinking, like, “Eh, is that something I should be doing or not?” But I just, that was my first feeling around that.

18:24 –> 18:24  Shaun Dyke: Mm-hmm.

18:24 –> 18:27  Bo Burick: Like, where I felt like I was going in a direction that I didn’t wanna go.

18:27 –> 18:29  Shaun Dyke: Didn’t wanna go into. But you did.

18:29 –> 19:10  Bo Burick: I did. The other thing I was very clear about is, uh, throughout my early career, and well, ac- through all my career, there’s always been opportunities to participate in training, being mentored, um, or training and mentoring others. I always had peak satisfaction and had, oh, uh, I’ll say like a almost fantasy, like, “I wish I could do that all the time.”. And then you’d leave the class or the course, and then you’d get right back to work and just get back to your default path, right? But. I, I, I would… That was, those were the clear signs that something was not quite lining up- … at that point.

19:10 –> 19:32  Shaun Dyke: Did it start to hit a point for you where we’ve summited the mountain, uh, that we had planned on summiting we’re doing all the cool things- … um, and ah, man, um, starting to feel like, “I don’t know that I want to be on this one.”. Did it reach a point where it started to, this’ll sound ex- exaggerated, but did it, the world started to unravel? And if so, do, how’d that materialize in body and relationships and-

19:32 –> 20:24  Bo Burick: Yeah. 100%. Uh, I started to, I was just feeling much less satisfaction, like the things that would drive me, like once you are achieving certain levels of success, like whether it’s levels of promotion or recognition or even compensation, um, the things that used to give you satisfaction and joy on delivering on just didn’t feel m- as meaningful. And so y- I mean, you’re not quite sure why that is. You’re, you’re a little bit, you’re so committed to just continuing to plow forward, but more and more often, I was, like, not having the same level of commitment and energy to climb the mountain. It was just getting harder and harder, and so everything starts to just turn into a grind. Um, I, the only thing that I would respond with on that was it felt like I was self-doubt, and I need to knuckle up and get over this hump. I need to figure out why this is not working.

20:24 –> 20:26  Shaun Dyke: Nice learned behavior, right?

20:26 –> 20:26  Bo Burick: Yeah. [laughs]

20:26 –> 20:27  Shaun Dyke: That’s on me. Let me lock in.

20:27 –> 20:27  Bo Burick: Yeah. [laughs]

20:27 –> 20:30  Shaun Dyke: Right? Yeah. Suck it up, figure it out.

20:30 –> 20:33  Bo Burick: Suck it up. And, and, uh, and also to a certain degree, start coping.

20:33 –> 20:39  Shaun Dyke: Coping can materialize in a lot of ways. You and I’ve talked a little bit about it. Uh, one of the ways in which it most manifested for you was-

20:39 –> 20:55  Bo Burick: Was drinking. Yeah. And, um, that’s how you suppress, right? And some people might say self-medicate, whatever, but. it’s a tricky one because, um, social drinking and all that is it’s a, it’s a ton of fun.

20:55 –> 20:57  Shaun Dyke: Social drinking

20:57 –> 21:02  Bo Burick: You know? And from early age, it’s always been a part of, um, having a good time.

21:02 –> 21:03  Shaun Dyke: Yeah. It’s normalized.

21:03 –> 21:16  Bo Burick: Yeah. And genuinely, I mean, it, it brings people together. And for me personally, like, it’s like I, maybe it was just me, but I thought I was funnier. I was having more fun. I mean, it was just, it was a part of the fun journey.

21:16 –> 21:18  Shaun Dyke: You were probably better looking, I’m sure as well. Yeah.

21:18 –> 21:23  Bo Burick: Well, I, I know I was. So, but, uh, yeah, for sure. Um-

21:23 –> 21:26  Shaun Dyke: So, so that starts to show up more for you?

21:26 –> 21:50  Bo Burick: I continued to manage that. But then I became very self-aware that there was more to this than social. You know, I was using this as, as a, in a way to mask something. But I didn’t know what. I, no idea what, uh, until you finally realize, like, this is not contributing to what our, what I’m doing.

21:50 –> 21:58  Shaun Dyke: Right. So we tend to say all growth starts with self-awareness. What was the awakening?

21:58 –> 22:38  Bo Burick: So in reality, I always knew that I was using, um, alcohol to kinda cope, and. the real struggle behind that is you talk yourself out of ever doing anything about it. Uh, there’s fear around losing that crutch, and. there’s a point at which, though, you finally recognize that there is gonna be no change going forward if you don’t remove that from the equation. And so it was at that point that I knew that, that l- that was a step I had to take for me to start feeling better about how I was showing up, what I was doing, and-

22:38 –> 22:40  Shaun Dyke: Alcohol in general, get it out.

22:40 –> 22:40  Bo Burick: Just get it out.

22:40 –> 22:46  Shaun Dyke: It’s a coping mechanism that I’m using to sedate the collective awareness of of my dissatisfaction.

22:46 –> 23:38  Bo Burick: And, and at the time it was only, the goal was only to just remove that. I didn’t have subsequent steps and phases in mind. It was just like, “This is just not contributing.”. “This is not additive-“. … “to my life.” And, uh, and so in doing that, that was fantastic. Um, absolutely blessed in that. It was a, it was, getting there is the hard work, and then, but once you are committed to it, it’s like for me that was really easy, uh, just enlightening. And it allowed me to now start to really dig into what’s, what’s eating at me. What’s behind my malaise? What’s behind my lack of drive, uh, at this point? Even though I w- I didn’t, I wa- didn’t know I was on that journey yet ’cause I was continuing to just plow forward- … until I couldn’t.

23:38 –> 23:46  Shaun Dyke: Was it a, was it a gradual slow burn, where the realization become clearer and clearer and clearer for you, like fog lifting? Or was there a moment where it was a-

23:46 –> 23:57  Bo Burick: So I had, I had gotten into a place where I just felt like, like the suck was mine, and I just had to figure out how to be better to make myself happy. Like, it was-

23:57 –> 23:57  Shaun Dyke: Quite a desperation just dropping into that place where-

23:57 –> 23:59  Bo Burick: It was 100- 100%

23:59 –> 24:02  Shaun Dyke: … oh, this is my shit. I gotta deal with it. I gotta work through it. Yep.

24:02 –> 24:20  Bo Burick: Well, and it all goes back to my, my original values, like take care of your business. You know? Pull your weight. Like, don’t ask for help, for sure. Like, there were just things that you just stood up for yourself, and so, um-So I was continuing to plow forward

24:20 –> 24:26  Shaun Dyke: So the truth that you finally said out loud that got you there?

24:26 –> 25:11  Bo Burick: I had my first panic attack, not a panic attack, an anxiety attack whatever you wanna call it. Um, but it was just that, I just remember it like yesterday, you know, sitting in the car at the office about ready to go, just wage into it again, and then feeling like I just, I don’t have it, and feeling, uh, you know, just almost paralyzed. But not. Um, and I, again, gratitude, uh, talking to my HR director at the time, and, uh, Annie just looked me in the eye and said, “Um, you gotta check out and you gotta figure, you gotta figure out what’s going on with you.” And I’m like, “I can’t do that. Like, I’ve got-”

25:11 –> 25:12  Shaun Dyke: Got a job to do

25:12 –> 25:26  Bo Burick: … “all these things going on, and I’ve got meetings,” and then she’s like- … “You aren’t listening.”. Like, “This is something you need to really invest yourself into.”. “And so you need to disappear and take advantage of that time to figure out what’s going on with you.”

25:26 –> 25:51  Shaun Dyke: So there, you’re somebody out here listening, and you’re conscious that you, maybe you’re growing in this journey. [clears throat] Maybe you know it already, but you’re in those spots where you’re like, “Man, I feel that.”. “I, I feel that space.” W- what is the, what was the courage? What was the, the decision points or the support that you had that allowed you to kind of now move from, “This isn’t it, I’m on the wrong mount- I gotta climb down”?

25:51 –> 26:20  Bo Burick: Yeah, or what am I even… What’s my next step? Yeah, ’cause, uh, you have to figure out, well, w- what are you trying to secure? So therapist, right? Um, so Jean was elemental to, I mean, unbelievable listener. She has this great way about her, and Jean was just like, “You know, I have a thought. You know?” She goes, “And don’t throw this out, but I have a book I’d love for you to read. It’s called The Middle Passage.”. You might have-

26:20 –> 26:23  Shaun Dyke: So, so just to be clear on that one again so we can hear it. The Middle Passage.

26:23 –> 26:24  Bo Burick: The Middle Passage.

26:24 –> 26:26  Shaun Dyke: Yeah, real simple read that you recommended, but okay.

26:26 –> 27:48  Bo Burick: Yeah. It may be thin but it’s, it’s heavy. You know, it’s, it’s really adds depth to around the whole concept of, like, what’s a midlife crisis, right? And which so many people experience, and succinctly, it, what it speaks to is that many people can go through their lives on a predetermined path, uh, similar to what I’m, I’ve been describing, but inevitably at around midlife, you are going to feel the pain of not living a life authentic to who you are. You have a choice. You’re either going to medicate it or ignore it or continue to suppress it for continued struggle and pain [laughs]. … I think, or you’re gonna figure out, “What am I supposed to be doing, if it’s, if it’s not this?” And that’s where the book, for me, um, again, another moment, and it seemed like yesterday, I read the word nurturer, and it just, like, jumped off the page, hit me right between the eyes. And I was like, “Yeah, I…” It resonated with me, and the book then encourages me to, at that point, to say, “Hey, look back through your life and find all those peaks and high points where you felt switched on.”. Right? And it was always when I was helping people.

27:48 –> 27:48  Shaun Dyke: Being the nurturer.

27:48 –> 28:27  Bo Burick: From the time I was a Scout and teaching someone first aid or a knot, some kind of unlock for them, I just remember immense joy. Uh, when I was, uh, teaching or a trainer, instructor for pro- program management or project management, always seeing people get excited about the new skills and things that they’re gonna take back and elevate, helping young, uh, young engineers, you know, become better at what they do. Um, all of those events is what made me feel so happy. Um, and I’m like, “Well, how do I…” [laughs] Now the question is, what’s next?

28:27 –> 28:28  Shaun Dyke: What do I do next?

28:28 –> 28:35  Bo Burick: Like, I own this, okay. And it’s, uh, what’s next? And there’s so much fear in that what next step.

28:35 –> 28:36  Shaun Dyke: Based on a variety of things I would imagine.

28:36 –> 29:05  Bo Burick: Yeah, I mean, ’cause for, you know, at that point, over 20 years, I’ve been the absolute rock and foundation to my wife and this family, you know, steady, uh, never have to question Dad. And for the first time in my life, I’m looking at my wife. completely unsteady, you know, not the foundation, and for her to see me in that state, it was terrifying.

29:05 –> 29:06  Shaun Dyke: It’s incredibly vulnerable.

29:06 –> 29:18  Bo Burick: You know, because for her, she’s like, “Who… What is going on?”. You know? Um, and just add on top of that, two kids in college and all kinds of things like that, it’s-

29:18 –> 29:21  Shaun Dyke: Fear of disappointing father all the people.

29:21 –> 29:27  Bo Burick: All, I mean, I think at that point, more fear of disappointing my family. And at that point-

29:27 –> 29:38  Shaun Dyke: So, and s- s- I think so often in situations like that, people say, “It’s too hard.”. “Too scary.”. What was it? How did you, how’d you stay in the hunt?

29:38 –> 30:00  Bo Burick: I had no choice. You know? Uh, ’cause at that point, you’re like, “I have to… I know where I’m at and what I’m doing. It can no longer exist as it is.”. It’s like the pain of staying the same is too great. And, um, and also Monica was really absolutely clear, like, “I’m going where you’re going.” Um-

30:00 –> 30:01  Shaun Dyke: You had the support.

30:01 –> 30:19  Bo Burick: Yeah. “I’m in your, [laughs] I’m in your foxhole.”. You know? And, uh, so, and a- at that point, I also, I just felt such, now at this point, intrinsically, I had a duty to figure this out.

30:19 –> 30:38  Shaun Dyke: It’s an incredible statement, um, in your foxhole. I have to imagine, you know, this, this inflection point you’re in at life, MJ’s support had to mean so much in helping you find the courage and the confidence to explore what’s next.

30:38 –> 31:01  Bo Burick: Yeah. She gave me the freedom to, to think, uh, “I can let you down for a moment-“. … is the idea, that I could not be what I always thought I was, was just this rock solid, never stray. Um, I could be vulnerable and weak. And she made it okay for me to be there. Um, but with a plan.

31:01 –> 31:06  Shaun Dyke: In hindsight though, do you recognize that you are not weak? That was probably one of the strongest things you’ve done in life.

31:06 –> 31:11  Bo Burick: Yes, 100%. Yeah, but it’s… That’s what kept me back.

31:11 –> 31:12  Shaun Dyke: Feeling like it was weak that I was gonna let you down.

31:12 –> 31:15  Bo Burick: Yes, exactly. 100%, 100%.

31:15 –> 31:19  Shaun Dyke: And knowing that that wasn’t her lens. That’s a damn powerful lens. Have you told her that?

31:19 –> 31:19  Bo Burick: Uh-

31:19 –> 31:21  Shaun Dyke: I mean, she can hear it now, so I know so it’s gonna show up.

31:21 –> 31:22  Bo Burick: Well. Thanks, babe.

31:22 –> 31:39  Shaun Dyke: But that’s incredible, yeah. That’s amazing. I mean, genuinely amazing. Okay, so now we’re at that point, we at least… Coping mechanism’s been removed from our life. We have the support of MJ. We recognize we’ve climbed the wrong mountain. Exploration phase.

31:39 –> 31:50  Bo Burick: Yeah, yeah, 100% in that, um, have to figure out, what’s my mountain? And it’s also in the context of what, what can I do? I’ve spent 50-plus years on the planet-

31:50 –> 31:51  Shaun Dyke: Formula One racer probably wasn’t you’re gonna be… I mean. [laughs]

31:51 –> 32:42  Bo Burick: Yeah. [laughs]. I don’t… Okay. So, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. There was, I had to think, like, what is a reasonable pivot that harnesses. everything I’ve done in my life, right? Harnessing, like, the good, the bad. What are my strengths? Um, and I didn’t know what that was, but I’d had enough overlap with people that I’d mentored and trained. I’d known of coaches. Um, I was inspired to learn more about that, and I was, and I had an, an idea. Like, I’ve spent so much time in and around leadership, either as a leader or being trained or training. I thought, you know, maybe that’s w- that’s a place that I can… At least I want to go there to figure out if that is feasible. And lo and behold, I cross paths with you.

32:42 –> 32:43  Shaun Dyke: [laughs] That’s right.

32:43 –> 32:43  Bo Burick: You know?

32:43 –> 32:44  Shaun Dyke: That’s right. I remember our breakfast not too far away from here one morning.

32:44 –> 33:08  Bo Burick: Yeah, and- Yeah, and it was real clear, uh, to me that it was like, hey, I’m not here asking for a job. I’m here for education. Like, I’m trying to figure out, uh, what I, what I’m gonna do with this. Uh, and we had that idea. Uh, and you said, “Hey, don’t necessarily rule this out.”. Don’t necessarily r- which for me was very exciting, but at the same time, still fearful. Like-

33:08 –> 33:09  Shaun Dyke: Of course

33:09 –> 33:45  Bo Burick: … is that something I can do? Um, but what was, what was very clear to me was that whatever I pivoted to, I wanted it to be something that I knew I would wanna do till my last day. Like, the concept of retirement, I wanted that gone ’cause I wanted the pivot to go to something that defined me. What’s my purpose? What makes, what makes me feel good, uh, every single day? Uh, I wanted to be very intentional about selecting that next step to be in alignment with that. And so…

33:45 –> 33:51  Shaun Dyke: Sometimes we just don’t recognize that. you never could’ve climbed this mountain if you hadn’t climbed the first one.

33:51 –> 33:51  Bo Burick: Oh, absolutely.

33:51 –> 34:02  Shaun Dyke: Like if, like if, if for some reason you’d been like, “Oh, I’m gonna be in, in, you know, learning and development. I’m gonna be- … an executive coach out of the gate,” it, it may not have ever worked in order to be successful here.

34:02 –> 34:05  Bo Burick: I, I, I don’t have. a lot of regrets.

34:05 –> 34:06  Shaun Dyke: Nice place to be.

34:06 –> 35:04  Bo Burick: In the sense that are there things I wish I maybe had done differently? You know, of course. I’ve treated people poorly. Like, yeah, there’s no usefulness in that. Um, but all the things that have transpired in my life from as early as I can remember to today have all uniquely added up to me being exactly where I am this exact moment. Should I change any of that, would I be here? I don’t know. Is this exactly where I wanna be? 100%. So I look at all of it as additive, you know? It’s just on me whether or not I’m harnessing it for good, right? As opposed to, um, “I’m gonna bury that. I don’t wanna talk about it.” Like, no, let’s bring it all forward because. if it brings, if it brings peace, if it brings confidence in what you’re doing, like why would you ever, why would you ever shy away from that? You know?

35:04 –> 35:12  Shaun Dyke: I’m gonna butcher the name probably, but, uh, you know it. I think we’ve talked about it. It’s that, um, uh, form of pottery I believe that’s called kintsugi.

35:12 –> 35:14  Bo Burick: Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I don’t-

35:14 –> 35:14  Shaun Dyke: You know this.

35:14 –> 35:16  Bo Burick: I’m equally ignor- ignorant on how to say it.

35:16 –> 35:17  Shaun Dyke: Yeah, on how to say it.

35:17 –> 35:17  Bo Burick: But, yeah.

35:17 –> 35:30  Shaun Dyke: But you’re talking about where the broken pieces are gilded with gold and/or silver precious metals- … to illustrate that the cracks and the breakages along the way are what’s created the entity, not this perfectly formed piece. That doesn’t exist in any of us really.

35:30 –> 35:30  Bo Burick: Yeah, right.

35:30 –> 35:55  Shaun Dyke: And the power in that space. Okay, so. I’m driving in my car somewhere, and I’m listening to this dialogue. And I’m thinking, “You know what? I feel that quiet disconnect or maybe even that loud disconnect-“. … and from what I’m doing. Um, maybe I’m paralyzed by fear. Maybe I don’t have the support of an MJ. Maybe those aren’t the spaces for me. What’s the small move I make?

35:55 –> 36:23  Bo Burick: Uh, you have to listen to it. You have to listen to it. Um, if not now, it will come ultimately and not incapacitate you, but you’re gonna struggle. You’re gonna struggle. So, um, I just say lean into it, and the mo- You know, the best thing you can do for yourself and everyone around you. is to have alignment with who you are whatever that is.

36:23 –> 36:30  Shaun Dyke: What’s the Freud quote? Uh, “Repressed emotions don’t die, they’re just buried alive.”. Those things are gonna come clawing back up middle of the night, knock on your door.

36:30 –> 36:38  Bo Burick: Yeah, you’re not gonna avoid it. Um, unless your choice is to ignore it, medicate it, and that takes you down a whole nother path.

36:38 –> 36:41  Shaun Dyke: Yeah, and that is not choosing extraordinary impact.

36:41 –> 36:42  Bo Burick: That is, that is, that is not. [laughs]

36:42 –> 36:46  Shaun Dyke: Right? That’s, that’s not that’s not, it’s not the ad- … the advocacy of which we would encourage.

36:46 –> 36:47  Bo Burick: Yeah, no, no.

36:47 –> 37:00  Shaun Dyke: There’s an exercise that one of our colleagues, Susan, uh, one time introduced to us, and when she initially introduced us to it, I was like, “All right, I’ll give that a try.” And then I tried it, and I literally got a little paralytic. I couldn’t do it. I’ve not finished it. I’m not gonna ask you to do it in its entirety.

37:00 –> 37:00  Bo Burick: Uh-huh.

37:00 –> 37:06  Shaun Dyke: I’m just gonna have a component of it. The exercise she encouraged was write a letter. to yourself as a five-year-old.

37:06 –> 37:07  Bo Burick: Hm.

37:07 –> 37:28  Shaun Dyke: And I thought, “Sure, I’ll try that.” And I mean, like, three sentences in, it broke me a bit. Trying to know what you know now and share that with that person. So I’m gonna give a shorter one. If you could whisper one sentence to your younger self- … what would it be?

37:28 –> 37:38  Bo Burick: Uh, “It’s gonna be okay, little man.”. You know, ’cause, uh, I, I wouldn’t give me instructions on what to avoid.

37:38 –> 37:39  Shaun Dyke: [laughs] No, it wouldn’t work.

37:39 –> 37:55  Bo Burick: Right? No. And also, it wouldn’t get me where I am at. So, um, it’s just encouragement. Uh, you know, I said it, uh, before, definitely listen to yourself. Um, but. I don’t know if that’s gonna land with the five-year-old.

37:55 –> 37:55  Shaun Dyke: Not yet.

37:55 –> 37:56  Bo Burick: But-

37:56 –> 38:26  Shaun Dyke: Look, man, the, I think the ad- one of the pieces of admiration I have for you is this idea of perseverance through those pieces, and I think what you illustrate in your journey that I hope people listening took away is that, um, sometimes growth doesn’t mean climbing higher on the mountain. Sometimes growth means actually stopping, climbing down, and going in search of the mountain that you really need to be on. And that’s not an easy journey. But I truthfully admire that in you. I, um I respect it a ton. Even though you were in the Air Force and not the Navy, I still respect that a ton. Um-

38:26 –> 38:28  Bo Burick: Well, the, the feeling’s mutual.

38:28 –> 38:36  Shaun Dyke: Yeah. Appreciate it, man. Thank you for sharing it and, uh going deep on all these pieces for us. And, um, look forward to the next time we get to hang out.

38:36 –> 38:41  Bo Burick: Love it, Shaun. Thanks.